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Does art take away from life?

 
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:39 am
@farmerman,
Seriously, you have been brainwashed. That rubbish is so bizzare...have you heard of an elephant that does those paintings ? How about the orangutan ? Are they expressing man's inhumanity to the animals ? How about rage at their imprisonment ?

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you should just let yourself go
Yes, by all means go to the art gallery not that rubbish.
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enjoy the abstraction, the color, the work, and only after some work on your part, you can sound a little more intelligent.
Enjoy the abstraction....there certainly is a lot of abstraction....but I can get the same thing before beating a cake mix. The colour....there is a lot of colour in some.....but why wouldnt I enjoy a child's finger painting before that rubbish done by an adult. The work....what bloody work...some of them were on drugs and didnt know what they had done till the next downer. And only after some work on your part, you can sound a little more intelligent..... the mind boggles...is that what you think will make you sound more intelligent ? Well, I suppose in your case anything is worth a try...

You do know it is upside down ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 06:49 am
@farmerman,
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Quick to embrace religion as a rudder for your life
For the millionth time, I am not religious. Talk about a slow learner.
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yet somehow you are a dull piece of zinc when it comes to anything aesthetic.
Really ? Is Michealangelo's David aesthetic because I get that. And van Gogh....but not Picasso, he marks the limit at what I consider to be too far... who does those giant statues that look real ? ...those I get...but when someone welds junk together or a druggie throws paint at a canvas, that is just masturbating the senses whilst saying, it is art...I am intelligent, I am fashionable, I "get" it !
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I think that, with respect to much abstract art yer just missing the boat
It is a boat without a bottom and you are drowning in denial and self proclaimed intelligence, Gomer.
People without a real life and with too much money led by the mentally ill to acclaim a lack of design as art.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:29 am
@Ionus,
I understand that there a maybe millions of you who believe that much abstract art is degenerate and what, a product of too much free time?

I believe I can always sink to your level of absolutism. ALl I need do is turn off my cognitive centers and my right brain and Ill be right there with you.It must be great knowing it all as you do. I stand in awe of URANUS........................not.



Quote:
Really ? Is Michealangelo's David aesthetic because I get that. And van Gogh....but not Picasso, he marks the limit at what I consider to be too far... who does those giant statues that look real ? ...those I get...but when someone welds junk together or a druggie throws paint at a canvas, that is just masturbating the senses whilst saying, it is art...I am intelligent, I am fashionable, I "get" it !
Its good you inform us of your decisions on what is or is not good art. I think your statement just reeks of being a lazy **** , both intellectually and aesthetically .
Any asshole can dredge up some opinion of absolutist crap and get others even to agree. Its the artistic equivalent of a bunch of lemmings who draw strength from each others laziness.

I can see that this wont be a discussion of art since youve already made up your mind and noone can budge you, your wheels are off and your just blockin the road.

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It is a boat without a bottom and you are drowning in denial and self proclaimed intelligence, Gomer.
People without a real life and with too much money led by the mentally ill to acclaim a lack of design as art.
.
Actually Im the one with the open mind ANUS, you have come out early proclaiming the valuelessness of much modern art and abstract in particular. Do you even listen to yourself as you type or are both orifices in play when you communicate? WHich orifice did the above statement come from.....WAIT , I know..



Weve taken PQ's thread far enough through the field, why dont you just get some sleep so you can think up more of this stuff, I find it very entertaining on a rainy Monday.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:39 am
@farmerman,
ANUS does make on e point that needs some massaging. Is it necessarilly bad to consider the artists commwercial attempts as somehwo diminshing his or her work?
I recall reading that the Impressionists had spent years getting drunk and decrying why theoir art doesnt sell. SOmehow suddenly the world caught up and the title "impressionism" was no longer considered derisive and many oif the artists became comfortable and a few, like Monet, became quite wealthy.

Anus seems to think that theres a chasm that must exist wherein a "real" artist would not tread. I feel that most art has a commercial intent by the artist who created the work. All art forms are similar, there is a need for support for the artist to continue, and many great artists have suffered yet pursued their passion despite being poor as hillbillies.

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:08 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
ALl I need do is turn off my cognitive centers and my right brain and Ill be right there with you.It must be great knowing it all as you do.
I do get art Gomer, I just think you have been brainwashed into believing that the more abstract the art the cleverer the person who "gets" it is. Thta might wash except you are a supporter and that shoots your argumnet down in flames. Now if Einstein had of liked it, you might have a point.
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I stand in awe of URANUS
I really think you should seek help about you and your fixation with the anus.
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Any asshole can dredge up some opinion of absolutist crap and get others even to agree.
Any asshole can dredge up some opinion of crap being art and proclaim if you dont "get" it that is because you are dumb.
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I think your statement just reeks of being a lazy **** , both intellectually and aesthetically .
I think your choice of art is as understandable as whips and fattening deserts. Are you into whips because your fixation with anuses and crap are widely known. Are you overweight because that would just add one more area of your life where excess and self deluded over-indulgence is the norm.
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WAIT , I know..
Sure you do. Atta boy ! You keep trying.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:12 pm
@farmerman,
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Anus seems to think that theres a chasm that must exist wherein a "real" artist would not tread.
(sigh) Wrong again, Gomer. I think there's a chasm where real people will not tread. Artists being the hypo wierd drug taking I-am-too-beautiful-for-this-world-type will always be producing rubbish. It is up to normal people to say what they think about it so fools like you dont get carried away with themselves as having a true understanding.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:19 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
I just think you have been brainwashed into believing that the more abstract the art the cleverer the person who "gets" it is.
NOPE, I only commented on your view which stated (And I paraphrase) ANYBOSY painting abstract art is a drug addled sex mad chil moletser. AM I close ANUS?.
Your views of art are laughable, if you dont get it admit it. Theres a lot of modern art I have great difficulty with , Theres no dishonor. Youve made these hard edged pronouncements that make you sound like a real jerk.
I dont get Cy Twombly, I find his work ridiculous, but I do know that , before he went totally AE he was a damn accomplished draftsman. Why did he take off ? thats the real question, not wheter his later work is worthless.
You just jump (using ignorance as a conveyance) into hard edge ridicule of what youve got no information on. When I told you about Tim Burtons show as an event which was more of a joke than an art event, did that sink IN? Did you boither to look at Burtons other cartoon work? Do you know anything at all about him?

See ya ANUS.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:33 pm
@farmerman,
Have you ever counted the number of times you mention anus, arsehole, crap, ****, etc . Why dont you seek help ?
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ANYBOSY painting abstract art is a drug addled sex mad chil moletser. AM I close ANUS?.
I suspect you are close to being all that, but I am not certain.
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Theres a lot of modern art I have great difficulty with , Theres no dishonor.
But there is if I dont get all modern art ? Is that right ? How many working class people think it is art ? It is for the likes of you, with a hobby farm becrying his precious tuna that he has flown in from half way around the world will soon be extinct, driving large expensive cars and running over wildlife wihilst bemoaning pollution and saying somebody will have to do something about it. It is the likes of you that think you will somehow have talent if you buy this rubbish and people will think better of you...well you had better buy a great deal of it.

You didnt interpret that rubbish painting I posted earlier...why is that ? Can anyone tell me what is so good about a drunk throwing paint at a canvas ? Is this like the rich who like to say **** every now and then just like a real person and everyone titters at how funny it is.

As for Tim Burtons and his joke, it would be funny if it wasnt like the real world of modern art but it has all the humuor of laughing at a leg being sawn off....it just isnt funny when it is true.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:40 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
rubbish painting


What's the problem with Blue Poles?

I like it!

So there.

And I'm not getting into an barney with you about it, either! Wink
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:41 pm
@msolga,
If I can ask why do you like it and what it means to you, because I dont see art in it.
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 08:57 pm
@Ionus,
You can.

I could go on & on like (sounding like a bit of a wanker while I'm at it Wink ) about Jackson Pollock's paintings, their "place" in art history, Action Painting & the rational behind the movement, the methods he used, etc, etc .. but that would bore you rigid.

"Liking" an artwork or not (to me, anyway) is a very subjective thing. It either appeals to you (on any number of levels) or it doesn't. Blue Poles does happen appeal to me. I've seen the original & found it a very satisfying experience. It "works" for me. But, of course, you can appreciate an artwork without necessarily liking it.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 10:28 pm
@msolga,
What I am trying to find out is what you see that is artistic...I can show you classics of art, sculpture in particular, and show you how the form is that of a beautiful body and how difficult it was due to the flaws in the marble, or how the Mona Lisa has a smile that has a very indistinct corner due to the way it was painted...what can you show me that is well done in that "painting " ?
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 12:48 am
@Ionus,
OK, I'll have a go ... on the condition that this doesn't turn into an endless argument, OK? If what I say makes no sense to you or you totally disagree, then we'll have to agree to see things differently. I'm not attempting to persuade you that my way is the only way, OK? Wink

First of all, an artwork doesn't have to be "artistic" or "appealing" or a vision of "perfection" to be considered "good" art. (Some artworks are deliberately ugly, to provoke another sort of response entirely from the observer. Artists can have any number of different purposes in their work.) As well, personal responses from different people to any one piece of art can vary incredibly. For example, one person might consider the Mona Lisa (your example) a serene & beautiful depiction of a woman with an enigmatic smile from a particular time in history. Another person might not find her particularly appealing at all, might even find her pretty unattractive & "unfeminine". Yet another person might have absolutely no response to the Mona Lisa at all. (The same as there could be any number of different responses to say, a piece of music, a book, or a particular poem ... )

In the case of Blue Poles, my subjective response was to to be impressed by the sheer size & scale of it. Aesthetically, I loved the way the poles broke up the composition. The overlays of almost "accidental" splashes of different colours, dribbled textured colours, appealed to me, both aesthetically & also in a tactile sense: I wanted to touch the surface of the painting. I liked the way that light played on the surface of the painting. I responded to it in an emotional sense, too. I found it exciting. Somehow this whole complex mish-mash of different responses at the one time meant that Blue Poles worked for me. Now the person standing next to me might have a "My five year old could do better than that!" reaction. Another person could have had a Neutral reaction. The point is, everyone does not have to see such any artwork in exactly the same way. It is up to the person looking at it to come to their own conclusions about it.
Of course, it helped (in terms of my response) that I already knew quite a bit about Jackson Pollock & how he worked, what his aims were. There is no way I could have looked at that painting and not have seen him working on a gigantic canvas spread over his studio floor, dripping & dribbling paint in a sort of deliberate yet anarchistic way. And that, naturally, added another dimension to my response.
That's about as good a response to your question that can give.

And an entirely different response to this one, a collage by an artist called Hannah Hoch, produced around the time of WW1 . I find this one absolutely fascinating, not for the technical brilliance, or anything like that. It's because of the "message" (if you like) & the political & historical circumstances she was responding to. The Dadaists, including Hannah Hoch, were responding to the rise of fascism in their artworks. The intention was to communicate with their audience in an entirely different way than, Leonardo, or Jackson Pollock. And, of course the response from the viewer will be quite different, too. I love looking at all the details, the bits & pieces that comprise the whole, to "read" what she attempted trying to communicate.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6b/Hoch-Cut_With_the_Kitchen_Knife.jpg/476px-Hoch-Cut_With_the_Kitchen_Knife.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hoch-Cut_With_the_Kitchen_Knife.jpg

... & for the utterly beautiful, combined with artistic vision & skill, I present you with Monet. Now you have no argument with this, surely? Smile :

http://www.artquotes.net/masters/monet/water-lilies.jpg
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:14 am
In answer to the original question posed by this thread: Does art take away from life?:

I honestly don't know what the question means.

Art is simply an important part of life for those who choose art as their form of expression & for those who are receptive to the efforts of painters, sculptors, ceramicists, writers, poets, musicians, film makers, etc, etc, etc ...
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 05:12 am
@msolga,
Viewing Pollocks work isnt always something that allows one t5o quickly move by and five a "Gawrsh thayut were perdy"
Some of his work was done in fits of anger over some aspect of 1950's life that was bugging him. I always liked the ones that were informally called the "PAtio series" where he selected the paints from the palletes available to house and interior painters. Only he knew what was on his mind and like so many abstract painters, he was using the paint and his flinging just as a means to convey his energy. No other or deeper meaning is even tolerated by him. When he was questioned about his action painting technique, he ridiculed the reporters who tried to "Understand it" when Pollock himself wasnt sure.


How about this one:

           http://patioculture.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jackson-pollock.jpg?w=455&h=341











you can go visit this site and create your own "Pollocks" http://www.jacksonpollock.com
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 06:08 am
Ah, yes, as so often happens on internet forums those whose strongly held opinions lean in one direction clash with those whose strongly held opinions lean in the opposite direction.
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 06:57 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

I have said repeatedly that it is a product of a bored mind going to extremes when other pleasures like food and sex are readily criticised for being excessive then why not art ? People who have real lives with real problems dont need to look at a train smash sculpture or a lousy finger painting by a drunk and wonder about the deeper meaning. People with real lives dont feel compelled to like it because the Forth-Sythe-Smiths like it. Unless you are planning on being upwardly socially mobile, what is the use of all the pretense that a piece of garbage is an expression of man's inner contempt for nature and a tittilising expose of humanity's inhumanity to humanity.
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for the majority of the 20th century at least
Maybe we should call it the sick century.

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Your arguments are ridiculous.
Your arguments are predictable and so trendy as to be read off of a card handed out at the latest avante garde art show.


Well I wouldn't criticise anyone for going to town with sex or drugs actually. But I these tend to be criticised for their CONSEQUENCES-
now, if people don't have any reactions to this kind of art, as you're claiming, and it's all pretence, then what exactly is the massive problem?

I totally agree that 'most' people have no reactions to a lot of 20th century art, but why can't you recognise that some other people do?

As for my opinions just being 'trendy'- well they aren't, a lot of people have criticised this thread and rightly so. If I wanted to be trendy do you not think I'd try and find a better location to do it than an anonymous message board on the internet?

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 05:06 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Some of his work was done in fits of anger over some aspect of 1950's life that was bugging him.


.. & I understand that the demon drink played no small part in a number of his creations, farmer. Wink

It can be extremely difficult to explain what appeals to you in a particular painting to someone who isn't exactly receptive to the notion that it could appeal . One can feel like rather a goose in the process! But never mind. I tried.

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No other or deeper meaning is even tolerated by him. When he was questioned about his action painting technique, he ridiculed the reporters who tried to "Understand it" when Pollock himself wasnt sure.


That's the thing.
Sometimes the artist him/herself can't explain the "deeper meaning". Sometimes there is no deeper meaning. (That's what art critics & art marketers are for! Wink ) The process of creating the work is what actually mattered.

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How about this one:


Ha! I might just go to that site & create my own Pollock! Razz
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 05:52 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Ha! I might just go to that site & create my own Pollock!
Or a Ukrainian at least.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 05:53 pm
@farmerman,
Laughing

Ha!
 

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