Az will require Obama's birth certificate to run in 2010

@BillRM,

I don't need to talk to you then, so THERE! Twisted Evil

I was just arguing with your point that there was only one document, when clearly there are at least two.

I'm fine with Obama's citizenship status, I even think non-natural-born citizens should be allowed to be president.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I'm fine with Obama's citizenship status, I even think non-natural-born citizens should be allowed to be president.

with provisions i agree, listening to talk guy ron bennington shortly after the election he was saying, what if arnold schwarzeneger was allowed to run for president, do you think he'd hand the government over to the austrians the day after the inauguration

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@maporsche,

Quote:

mean, even I kind of wonder why we don't see a better shot of the plane going into the Pentagon.

So there was no plane hitting the Pentagon it was a missile or some such instead and the plane full of people that disappear went somewhere else or never existed at all?

A few thousands relations of those people on the plane is not for real, they did not have husbands and wives and sons and daughters aboard?

And all this question is based on the lack of good pictures of security cameras that by their nature was not design to take pictures of an object moving at 500 MPH or so?

My opinion is you are a wing nut yourself that is slowly coming out of the closet on this thread.

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@BillRM,

BillRM with accurate edits by maporsche wrote:

My opinion....mean's absolutely NOTHING.

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@maporsche,

I am sure that anyone here would be willing to pick crops for minimum wages with a job or without a job or be a live in maid 24/7 for minimum wages either,

How must do you think you would need to pay an American to do such back breaking work?

50,000 a year or more?

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@BillRM,

Interesting, you avoided the rest of my post where I said to do exactly that.
Why is that?

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@BillRM,

They don't pay all illegals minimum wage, or even less than minimum wage. My brother is a contractor in WA and every man on his job site makes at least $17/hr, including the ones he knows (unofficially, of course) are undocumented.

I'm not sure how much crop pickers are paid, but I'm pretty confident that it's not minimum wage (or less).

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@BillRM,

Haha...and we DO pay a lot of Americans less than $50k for backbreaking work. $50k is more than the average HOUSEHOLD income.

Unless you don't think the majorty of Americans are hard workers, especially at the poorer end of the spectrum.

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@maporsche,

And I just hired 3 movers to move my house, and there is a good chance that 2 of them were illegal, since they didn't speak a word of English (I'm assuming that some sort of English understanding is requried to become documented, could be wrong here)...and I paid them $20/hr.

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@mysteryman,

We agree that the only way to shut down illegally immigration is to fine the employers so heavily that they would prefer to go out of business instead of using such a work force.

If we did so one of two things would happen, we would grant work permits to the very people we are now kicking for being here or we would destroy a large part of the US agriculture industry.

Our ruling class desire an illegally work force and I find that very annoying when they then turn around and drum up hate for the very people they in fact need and had drawn here.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

They don't pay all illegals minimum wage, or even less than minimum wage. My brother is a contractor in WA and every man on his job site makes at least $17/hr, including the ones he knows (unofficially, of course) are undocumented.

I'm not sure how much crop pickers are paid, but I'm pretty confident that it's not minimum wage (or less).

You sir are a nut case and I would strongly suggest you watch some of the documentaries concerning farm labor crews members being treated as only one step above slaves.

Or go to my area in South Florida and talk directly to the Mexicans farm workers in the Homestead area.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

I'm not sure how much crop pickers are paid, but I'm pretty confident that it's not minimum wage (or less).

Yeah, let me tell ya - not so much. They are indeed paid less then minimum wage.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

And do not forget all the safety short cuts they can get way with when you have a work force with no rights.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You sir are a nut case....

Why do you demean yourself and the rest of your post with these pointless insults?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Interesting. I'll do a little further digging. It's true though that not all illegal immigrants make less than minimum wage...and not all of the jobs they do are backbreaking.

There are millions of Americans I'd bet (dollars to pesos) would do some of the jobs that illegals are doing now.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

This farm pays $16.59 an hour for field workers.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89099456

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@Cycloptichorn,

This guy makes between $8.50 and $12.75.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

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@maporsche,

2 points:

1, the guy in that article calculated that wage based on an 'hour of numbers worked,' but I doubt that they actually accurately reported the hours of numbers worked.

Even if that's true, you gotta understand that 2) people you see news stories about are isolated examples who are willing to talk about how much they pay, b/c they are in compliance with the law. Those who aren't in compliance don't talk to reporters for news stories.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I'm googling and googling trying to find studys, news reports, etc about lots of illegal immigrants making less than minimum wage. I'm seeing a lot that say that they make at least minimum wage (which is what I expected, the US government even says that the minimum wage applies to illegal aliens).

I do suspect that the majority of these people make more than the minium wage.

I also saw something (can't find it now, googling too fast) that said that there was no industry where illegal immigrants were the majority of employees...even in the farm/field picking work, at most the illegals make up 40% of the workforce...meaning that Americans ARE doing the jobs that people are saying they won't do.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

I also saw something (can't find it now, googling too fast) that said that there was no industry where illegal immigrants were the majority of employees...even in the farm/field picking work, at most the illegals make up 40% of the workforce...meaning that Americans ARE doing the jobs that people are saying they won't do.

I think this is accurate. The industries I suspect the most are farm labor and Construction - day laborers.

You never know, though, because once again you can't tell just by looking!

AZ would have done much better to levy giant fines on companies caught employing them.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Az will require Obama's birth certificate to run in 2010

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