@sozobe,
I'm okay with that, the general game playing. I liked it myself, the dodgeball, red rover, back then. But I never heard a word about the delights of athletics, while I heard from my mother that I shouldn't get overheated. (I'm so old, but only a few years earlier than boomers). And I never heard a word about exercise and its bennies in general until I was nearing forty, and that is speaking physiology - I sure never heard about the joys of hiking, exploring, and so on. I did spend time in the gym bleachers with it's-my-period excuses to avoid volleyball, which I'd never heard of, was confusing, and hurt my arm.
Well, that's not quite true, re hearing about delights of athletics, as I was an early reader of sports writing - but I didn't hear about the visceral pleasures of, say, running, in school, much less its health benefits... or get shown how on that or any other sport endeavor.
The only thing these kids should be doing is raising the gross national product.
@Amigo,
In a way, I agree with you. (Actually, to a large degree.) Consider me to be an amigo, Amigo.
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:I'm okay with that, the general game playing. I liked it myself, the dodgeball, red rover, back then. But I never heard a word about the delights of athletics, while I heard from my mother that I shouldn't get overheated. (I'm so old, but only a few years earlier than boomers). And I never heard a word about exercise and its bennies in general until I was nearing forty, and that is speaking physiology - I sure never heard about the joys of hiking, exploring, and so on. I did spend time in the gym bleachers with it's-my-period excuses to avoid volleyball, which I'd never heard of, was confusing, and hurt my arm.
Well, that's not quite true, re hearing about delights of athletics, as I was an early reader of sports writing - but I didn't hear about the visceral pleasures of, say, running, in school, much less its health benefits... or get shown how on that or any other sport endeavor.
U have found
running to be viscerally pleasurable, Osso ?
David
Perhaps I was a little bit rude in my outbursts. Sometimes I overreact and get long-winded.
@wmwcjr,
while I noticed that, I doubt many others did. overreaction is sop on this and many other forums.
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:
In a way, I agree with you. (Actually, to a large degree.) Consider me to be an amigo, Amigo.
You got it. Nice to meet you
Except I am very abrasive and not on any team politically.
@dyslexia,
Thank you for the kind word. Well, the thought did occur to me that I should view these forum exchanges like an ordinary conversation in real life and not turn others off with my heated comments, instead of thinking "Ah, ha! Here's an opportunity to get on my hobby horse and sound off bombastically." I mean, if I were over at someone's home, I wouldn't all of a sudden jump up on the coffee table and launch into a lengthy tirade. (I've lost my temper at least twice at another topic in this particular board.) Oh, well, it's fun. Some of the more heated exchanges between other members of this website are actually funny.
@Amigo,
Hi, Amigo. You say that you are very abrasive. Well, even though I now try to be Mr. Polite, in another topic of this board, I lost my temper twice and launched into lengthy tirades, as I just pointed out to dyslexia above. (Would you believe that I actually apologized for these two outbursts, the first publicly in a post and the second in a PM? Well, I had to, because of my conscience.) You also say that you are "not on any team politically." Do you mean that you do not consider yourself to be a member of any political party or even subscribe to any political ideology? I must confess that I'm guilty of the above (for various reasons which I need not elucidate here). To show you how naughty I am, I don't vote very often. Hey, perhaps this is a good way to irritate both liberals and conservatives at the same time.
@OmSigDAVID,
Definitely. Running might be an exaggeration, but I used to fast jog for batches of miles. When, as I intimated, I was approaching 40, and then later. I also learned to swim a mile, which involved breathing around pool water. Hah, I'm not the sluggard I sound. But I never learned anything of the joys of that in school.
It's true my school was small and long ago, so I don't take it as an example for my exact years. I do wish I'd learned a little physiology before I was forty. (No, I didn't learn it in zoology classes..)
@OmSigDAVID,
You are pulling my leg, OmSig. Almost cute.
@ossobuco,
How ofen did u used to fast jog for batches of miles ?
Okay, I'll take over the soapbox and do a little ranting...
NO, athletics should not be cut. For heavenssakes, how many states got voter approval for a lottery (I know Missouri did in early 80"s and NC did a few years back) based on it being for education? And, how many states are actually using that income for education? Why the hell isn't there enough money for teachers? Science Labs? School structures that don't have a bazillion trailers? Or, athletics???
The states (we citizens) have to decide that education is a priority and budget accordingly. Between federal funds, state taxes, local taxes and the lottery that is now in most states, why is there a shortfall? There are tons of other areas in the state budgets that can be cut, but NOT education, which should be the last item to be considered for cuts. Where the hell do they think our future doctors, scientists, teachers, and presidents are going to come from if not from an educated populace?
Nothing should be cut from schools unless there is obvious waste. FFA, DECA, Drama Club, Chorus, Band, athletics, etc. all have their place in making well rounded and productive adults. While I wasn't athletic either, I did attend games, cheer, eat a hot dog, and hang out with friends during the game. There's something to be said for school spirit and bringing everyone in the community together as only high school football, basketball and baseball can do.
As to other sports, to this day I remember how to row a canoe because I was taught in PE. I can square dance, shoot a bow and arrow, follow and understand the rules of most sports on tv, and can employ them when I hold Kids Night each month at work.
Three of my younger brothers played baseball in high school. Two are now coaches at college level. Another brother played during high school and was drafted to the majors prior to having a shoulder injury that messed up his pitching arm. My Dad and Granddad played ball. Our family reunions, usually three to four generations deep with numerous distant cousins, always included a baseball game in the cow pasture. What if we hadn't been taught in school how to play? There is still a vast segment of this country that does not have private schools, sports camps, city leagues or the YMCA to pick up teaching what the schools drop from the curriculum.
One doesn't have to be athletic to benefit from knowing how to play sports. The benefits go beyond skill level or even healthier lifestyles. How does one learn what talent and skills they have if not asked to try? Just because I'll never dive into a cadaver with a scalpel, doesn't mean I didn't learn something from disecting a frog in science class.
@squinney,
I have no use for school spirit when individual “student athletes” become arrogant and start looking down on other students as if they are supposedly inferior to them. I’m not saying this is true of all high-school football players, say; but it definitely is true of some of them. A childhood friend of mine who played football in high school (and is still a big fan) recently told me that most of his teammates had looked down on all the nonathletic guys at their high school. There is no denying the fact that nonathletic boys who have no interest in sports are bullied simply for that fact alone. The stigmatization often starts before the boys are even teenagers. Thanks to the sports culture, masculinity is now defined almost solely in superficial terms such as athletic prowess and physical strength. When I was growing up, nonathletic boys were called sissies. Now they’re called fags, despite the undeniable fact that homosexual men have been involved in sports (as they have been involved in just about every other realm of human activity). Is this bigoted attitude towards nonathletes justified?
I have no use for school spirit when a single sport is extolled above all other extra-curricular activities (sometimes even other sports). I have no use for school spirit when “student athletes” are given preferential treatment and are allowed by their coaches and the principals of their schools (not to mention the indifference of sports fans and sports columnists) to bully nonathletes and sexually harass girls at their schools. Were “student athletes” at Columbine ever disciplined for such misconduct before the massacre in 1999 (or afterwards)? And what is the reaction of a lot of fans when there are allegations that individual “student athletes” may have committed a crime such as rape? Ever hear of Glen Ridge?
You seem to be unaware that the mandatory sports-centered P.E. was entirely negative and sometimes downright traumatic for nonathletic boys of the “baby boom” generation (to which I happen to belong as a 59-year-old). I can assure you that the mandatory sports-centered P.E. was the bane of existence for the nonathletic boys of my generation, especially those who were physically weak or overweight. I’ve heard some real horror stories over the years. And I’ve got news for you: We were not taught anything about sports! No instruction was provided. The assumption seems to have been made that all boys already knew how to play sports. And there was no mention of exercise programs, despite the claim that the purpose of mandatory sports-centered P.E. was to promote physical fitness (which really was a lie).
My own observation is that more bullying takes place in mandatory sports-centered P.E. classes than all of the academic classes combined, yet you don’t even mention bullying. Please read the following two links and tell me that you don’t have a problem with bullying. Granted, the second link describes an incident that happened in Great Britain; but that sort of bullying takes place in this country, too.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Prevent-Bullying-By-Monitoring-PE-Classes&id=811024
http://www.bullyonline.org/cases/case97.htm
I’m not saying that athletics should be cut. Besides, whenever a school district has a budgetary crisis, sports usually is the LAST item to be cut. I’m glad that you enjoyed high school, but I just wish you would become aware of the fact that sometimes kids are hurt in the name of sports.
@wmwcjr,
Well, that's actually kinda funny. It sounds like I was the female version of you during the 70's. I remain uncoordinated and unathletic today to the point of my own children begging me to stop if I try to dance, let alone if I try to throw a ball in public.
What makes you think I'd support bullying? That would be silly. I don't condone Bullies. I just recognize that they are a part of life. If we don't have football, we'll still have bullies. Maybe the science kids could get their day at the top of the school hierarchy and make fun of the athletes? Some rich kids will still beat up the poor kids one way or another. There will still be boys that feel entitled to take advantage of or force themselves on females. School is just a smaller copy of the community in which it is built.
I would suggest that it isn't the sport(s), it's the parents, teachers, administration and larger community that allow such behavior to go unchecked that are at fault. If it was the science kids, the Math Club or Debate Team that was behaving this way would we stop teaching science, math or debate?
Higher math was quite traumatic for many in high school. So, I don't think the trauma factor should be part of the equation.
I don't want to downplay your experience. I would rather we take a wider view of all subjects, recognizing that they all contribute to developing well rounded adults with a clearer understanding of their strengths and interests so that they have a better chance of succeeding in leading a fullfilling life.
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:And I’ve got news for you: We were not taught anything about sports! No instruction was provided. The assumption seems to have been made that all boys already knew how to play sports. And there was no mention of exercise programs, despite the claim that the purpose of mandatory sports-centered P.E. was to promote physical fitness (which really was a lie).
This was pretty much my experience as well. I was also non-athletic -- although I never really was bullied (I was too widely adored for that). I didn't find PE traumatic, I just found it boring. In the fall, the coaches would throw a football out on the field and tell us to play, in the winter, the coaches would throw a basketball out on the court and tell us to play, and in the spring the coaches would throw a softball out on the field and tell us to play. My school really exemplified Woody Allen's observation that "those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach gym." I don't think, for instance, that I would have been a very good basketball player even with instruction, but a little instruction would have been appreciated, and it certainly would have been appropriate given the educational setting. As it was, on my last day of PE as a senior in high school I vowed I would never touch a basketball again as long as I lived. So much for the educational value of PE. If I have any interest in sports or physical fitness now, it is in spite of any physical education that I received in school, not because of it.
@joefromchicago,
I went to school in Rockford IL, and during my HS years 4 years of PE was a state requirement. I hated it with a passion. But I also used it as a springboard to get into shape, and it exposed me to sports that I never would have tried otherwise.
Looking back I think it was a good use of my time, better than more classroom time would have been. I am appalled that my kids only need to do one year of PE in HS.
@hawkeye10,
Same here: the state's four-year requirement for PE was widely regarded as the "PE Teachers' Job Security Act," as it seemed to have little relationship to any actual
education going on in the high schools. In contrast, the math requirement was two years, as was English. I think there was a one-year social studies/civics requirement, and a one-semester required consumer education course.
No doubt you're appalled that your kids only have to do one year of PE, but then as a student I was appalled that the state of Illinois thought PE was twice as important as math. Perhaps that helps to explain the state's miserable financial condition today. There are too many physically fit Illinois politicians who can't seem to figure out how to balance a budget.
@joefromchicago,
Quote:United Nations Educational Scientific and
Cultural Organization
INTERNATIONAL CHARTER OF PHYSICAL EDUCATION AND SPORT
(Adopted by the General Conference at its twentieth session, Paris, 21 November 1978)
Preamble
The General Conference of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
Organization, meeting in Paris at its twentieth session, this twenty-first day of November
1978.
Recalling that in the United Nations Charter the peoples proclaimed their faith in
fundamental human rights and in the dignity and worth of the human person and
affirmed their determination to promote social progress and better standards of life,
Recalling that by the terms of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights everyone is
entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth therein without discrimination of
any kind as to race, colour, sex, Ianguage, religion, political or other opinion,
national or social origin, property, birth or other consideration,
Convinced that one of the essential conditions for the effective exercise of human rights is
that everyone should be free to develop and preserve his or her physical,
intellectual and moral powers, and that access to physical education and sport
should consequently be assured and guaranteed for all human beings,
Convinced that to preserve and develop the physical. intellectual and moral powers of the
human being improves the quality of life at the national and the international
levels,
Believing that physical education and sport should make a more effective contribution to
the inculcation of fundamental human values underlying the full development of
peoples,
Stressing accordingly that physical education and sport should seek to promote closer
communion between peoples and between individuals. together with disinterested
emulation, solidarity and fraternity, mutual respect and understanding, and full
respect for the integrity and dignity of human beings,
Considering that responsibilities and obligations are incumbent upon the industrialized
countries and the developing countries alike for reducing the disparity which
continues to exist between them in respect of free and universal access to physical
education and sport,
Considering that to integrate physical education and sport in the natural environment is to
enrich them and to inspire respect of the earth's resources and a concern to
conserve them and use them for the greater good of humanity as a whole,
Taking into account the diversity of the forms of training and education existing in the
world, but noting that, notwithstanding the differences between national sports
structures, it is clearly evident that physical education and sport are not confined
to physical well-being and health but also contribute to the full and well-balanced
development of the human being,
Physical education and sport
Taking into account, furthermore, the enormous efforts that have to be made before the
right to physical education and sport can become a reality for all human beings,
Stressing the importance for peace and friendship among peoples of co-operation
between the international governmental and non-governmental organizations
responsible for physical education and sport,
Proclaims this International Charter for the purpose of placing the development of physical
education and sport at the service of human progress, promoting their
development, and urging governments, competent non-governmental
organizations, educators, families and individuals themselves to be guided
thereby, to disseminate it and to put it into practice
http://www.unesco.org/education/information/nfsunesco/pdf/SPORT_E.PDF
there is an actual argument for PE, which has at times been taken serioulsy
