ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

@OmSigDAVID,

If only that child had a gun then he could have prevented the attack on him.

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

What is the reason for leaving aside
what Paul Frick and Robert Hare said ?

The child is the victim of that mental disorder,
tho, in turn, he will inflict himself, his abuses, upon too many
innocent victims, but NOT the Hansen girls.

THAY took matters in hand.

I bow and tip my hat to them !

David
[/quote]

Well, I've been connected with adoptions (here) for about 25 years, directly and indirectly.

We seem to have a total different approach to adoptions: we look at the welfare of the child first, thus many willing parents can't adopt. Because they can't be parents for various reasons of that child.

Frick's and Hansen's are thought to have an outsider theory here.
Children are children in our opinion (you see that, for instance, that children under 14 don't go to juvenile courts when they did something or to prison, can't get arrested, that punishment according our juvenile criminal law [for those between 14 and 18 resp 21 up to 25] is educational [sic!]etc etc).

2 Replies

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I believe they work through American adoption agencies.

Russia offers the children for adoption and US agencies place them with families.

So, do those American agencies look at the future parents? See, if they "fit" with their new child?
Or is it really like ordering a barbie doll from an online shop?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

NB: if this boy really would be a psychopath, it would be the first ever know child.

YOU are the one who is clueless here. Again I suggest Hare's book "Without Conscience" as a starting point for understanding psychopaths.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

that children under 14 don't go to juvenile courts when they did something or to prison, can't get arrested, that punishment according our juvenile criminal law

Common law place the cut off age as 10 if memory serve me correctly.

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

If only that child had a gun then he could have prevented the attack on him.

NO one attacked him.
He was just asked to leave.

David

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
NB: if this boy really would be a psychopath, it would be the first ever know child.

YOU are the one who is clueless here. Again I suggest Hare's book "Without Conscience"
as a starting point for understanding psychopaths.

I was hoping that u 'd arrive, Gunga.
U are more fully informed on that subject than I am.

David

2 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

YOU are the one who is clueless here. Again I suggest Hare's book "Without Conscience" as a starting point for understanding psychopaths.

Well, you should tell that those who ...

Never mind.

I suppose, you don't know that outside the USA is world as well. With a lot of different ideas.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Yes. All American adoptions require a home study where the agency interviews the prospective parents -- even if you aren't using an agency to adopt. We had a private/lawyer facilitated adoption but an agency did our home study.

My guess would be that international adopers face even more scrutiny but that's only a guess.

In our home study psychological issues the child might face were never addressed -- attachment isssues, etc. I think agencies/agents are afraid that bring up such things will scare adoptive parents away. And maybe it should. It would not have disuaded me -- I'd loved and known Mo since birth and he'd lived with us for 4 years before we adopted him at 6 years old.

Adoption is always painted with such a rosy glow but there can be serious problems. I believe people considering adoption should be aware of them -- especially if they are adopting an older child who might have experienced neglect or abuse.

I would encourage anyone considering adoption to do so but they do need to enter into it with their eyes open.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I was hoping that u 'd arrive, Gunga.
U are more fully informed on that subject than I am.
David

Well, I didn't know that gunga is a certified children and youth psychiatrist.

In that case, he's of course aware of the totally different approach to mental health with children outside the USA.

1 Reply

I can only agree with Walther here.
As far as I know Scandinavia is just as careful about adopting as in Germany. First of all it is the wellfare of children.
I know a little bit about the adoption procedure in USA and if it is a good agency they would handle the matters just as we do in Germany and Scandinavia.
An adopted child can be difficult but so can a biological child.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Big brave man who claimed that a 7 year old can be so dangerous to the safety of adults that they could not wait to get treatment for the kid but needed to place him on a plane back to Russia as their first solution to the problem!!!! After all it self defense how stupid are you my friend?

Adults who took the responsibility for the child in the first place and went around the world to do so.

What to bet a large sum of money that if the Russians would be willing to adopt him out to another American family that there would not be a line at least a few tens of thousands couples long eager to do so?

Poor kid and evil and stupid women who we just got to punish to the maximum the law allow.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

What is the reason for leaving aside
what Paul Frick and Robert Hare said ?

The child is the victim of that mental disorder,
tho, in turn, he will inflict himself, his abuses, upon too many
innocent victims, but NOT the Hansen girls.

THAY took matters in hand.

I bow and tip my hat to them !

David

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, I've been connected with adoptions (here) for about 25 years, directly and indirectly.

We seem to have a total different approach to adoptions: we look at the welfare of the child first, thus many willing parents can't adopt. Because they can't be parents for various reasons of that child.

Frick's and Hansen's are thought to have an outsider theory here.
Children are children in our opinion (you see that, for instance, that children under 14 don't go to juvenile courts when they did something or to prison, can't get arrested, that punishment according our juvenile criminal law [for those between 14 and 18 resp 21 up to 25] is educational [sic!]etc etc).

U know, Walter, the fundamental difference
between what u counsel as distinct from MY advocacy
is that I argue from an egocentric point of vu
(self defense and defense of real property from arson),
whereas u argue from a selfless, altruistic point of vu.

I reject selflessness. I advocate Individualism, hedonism and fun,
in an environment of laissez faire personal freedom!!!

David

0 Replies

@saab,

saab wrote:

An adopted child can be difficult but so can a biological child.

Exactly.

(And in most if not all European countries we the same approach to adoption as in Scandinavia and Germany: that's why some willing parents go to those ... well, 'selling children agencies' - and are gobsmacked, even furious, when the planned adoption isn't legalised; or even worse, when the children don't behave like they wished.)

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
I was hoping that u 'd arrive, Gunga.
U are more fully informed on that subject than I am.
David

Well, I didn't know that gunga is a certified children and youth psychiatrist.

In that case, he's of course aware
of the totally different approach to mental health with children outside the USA.

The boy will NOW have access to the FULL ADVANTAGES thereof!!!!!, thanks be unto the Hansen girls !

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

With due respect, David: if you quote me verbally, do quote me correctly!

I didn't use bold letters in my response at all.

Thank you.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

Quote:

I don't agree with what this mom did but I do have some sympathy for her.

she did not get this kid in front of a shrink even once, she did not use any of the social services at her disposal, she did not so far as I can see contact the adoption agency and alert them to the situation........so after doing not much of anything to correct the situation she decides that the child is defective and sends him back, alone, you still have sympathy for her? Amazing

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Hmm.. being forced to leave his home isn't an attack on him? Are you now arguing that where a person lives can't be defended by gun if someone wants them to leave?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I've already said she should have utilized social services.

I don't know why she never took the child to a psychiatrist. I'm sure there are many child therapist who speak Russian in her area. I'm sure her insurance would happily pay for the bank - busting services these kids need.

Truthfully, I don't know what she did or didn't try to do to resolve the situation.

I'm sure she must have felt very helpless and hopeless to do something so drastic and stupid and for that I do have sympathy.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

With due respect, David: if you quote me verbally, do quote me correctly!

I didn't use bold letters in my response at all.

Thank you.

Walter, the record clearly shows
that u did not do so, right on the same page.
No one woud be mislead.

My purpose in doing that is to show
to which part of your statement I am directing my remarks.

It is an effort of precision of focus.
Are u against precision of focus ?

David

1 Reply

ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

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