17
   

ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:17 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
parents can adopt children
parents can divorce children (apparently ??)
children can divorce parents
children can adopt parents ?? (perhaps one day)
Yes; in effect: she divorced him (with good reason).





David
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Yes; in effect: she divorced him (with good reason).


Sorry we do not allow parents to abandon defenseless children due to emotional or any other problems for that matter.

There is no good reason for so doing.

The child is not a pet you can return to a breeder if you find he have some medical problem or other.

To abandon a child is a plain and simply felony in any state in the US and as it should be.
0 Replies
 
csantiba
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
We don't know the complete story. The russian people say before the adoption the boy was checked mentally and phisically and the results were OK. After that he travelled to the US wiht his " new mother", six months later he is rejected in that horrible way, alone in an interconental fly with just a note... very awful . Sometimes I think that she is not mentally OK. If she wanted sending him to Russia ... Why she didn`t go with him ? She acted cowardly.
csantiba
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:44 am
@OmSigDAVID,
We don't know the complete story. The russian authorities say that before the adoption the boy was checked mentally and phisically and the results were OK. Afther that he travelled whit his "new mom" to the United States, six months later he is rejected in that horrible way, alone in an intercontinental fligh along with just a note!! Sometimes I think that she is not mentally OK. If she wanted sending him back to Russia ... why she didn't go with him?? please, he is justs a 7 years old child.. She acted in a cowardly way...
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Not even a biological son is tolerable
when he turns his attentions and intentions to malice against his benefactor


You are quite right, threatening or menacing behavior should not be tolerated. It should be properly evaluated and treated.

What this woman did is inexcusable. You don't put a young child on a plane by himself and send him back to another country--for any reason.

The biological mother may have been an alcoholic, so this child may suffer from some degree of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or other neurological impairment, which may predispose him to behavioral problems, particularly problems with impulse control. Severe impulse control problems can be associated with explosive aggressive outbursts and behaviors like fire setting. These behaviors can be very difficult for a parent to manage--that is why they require professional intervention. Professional intervention would address treatment of the child's behavior as well as advising the parent on how to manage it.

When you adopt a child, you are the one who becomes responsible for the child. If the child displays psychiatric problems or behavioral problems, you are the one responsible for seeking evaluation and treatment for the child.

Do we know whether this woman ever got evaluation or treatment for this child?

This woman had the option of voluntarily placing the child in foster care, in this country. By moving to do so, she would have involved Family Court in the situation. That would have resulted in evaluation of the child, proper diagnosis of the problem, and a treatment plan. The Court could then have the child placed in an appropriate foster care setting or treatment facility if the child placed a risk to others, or have him simply removed from the home if the adoptive mother's behavior toward him was abusive, or if she simply couldn't manage him.

A larger issue in all of this is whether the Russian agency sufficiently informed this woman of the child's background and any existing behavior problems prior to the adoption. A prospective adoptive parent should know these things. I am reminded of the past flurry of adoptions from Romania when many adoptive parents found themselves with children with rather severe problems due to the past conditions of these children's lives.

Another issue is the fact that this sort of adoption, of an older child from a foreign country, can be extremely stressful for the child, particularly for a child who may not have adequate coping mechanisms to begin with. The child is removed from a world that is familiar to him--including his language, the foods he eats, his familiar caretakers, whatever attachments he has formed--and is placed in a strange new environment. This alone can trigger serious behavior problems in the child, and if the adoptive parent doesn't understand this, or fails to get appropriate professional help, or responds inappropriately, these problems intensify and escalate.

No matter what the situation was in this case, what the adoptive mother did, by putting that child on the plane, was wrong. She violated her state laws regarding child abandonment. She should be punished for that. She had other options and she should have used them.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

I cannot venture to guess whether that is sufficient
to arrest the inflamatory practices of pyromaniacs.
In some cases, drugs have been necessary to effect
cures; in other cases, no cure has been possible with currently available technology.

David


But you do know that you are talking about a 7 year old CHILD????
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 11:12 am
@firefly,
Excellent overview and summary of what should have been done.

Joe(ignore the heartless)Nation
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 11:25 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Not even a biological son is tolerable
when he turns his attentions and intentions to malice against his benefactor


You are quite right, threatening or menacing behavior should not be tolerated. It should be properly evaluated and treated.


I've some problems here.

Quote:
Nancy Hansen, the boy's adoptive grandmother, rejected claims that her daughter had abandoned the child. She said he was watched by a United Airlines flight attendant and that the family paid a man $200 (£130) to pick the boy up at the Moscow airport and take him to the Russian education and science ministry.

Nancy Hansen of Shelbyville, said the boy was violent and angry with her daughter. "He drew a picture of our house burning down, and he'll tell anybody that he's going to burn our house down with us in it," she said. "It got to be where you feared for your safety. It was terrible."

She said a social worker checked on the boy in January and reported to Russian authorities that there were no problems. But after that, the grandmother said incidents of hitting, kicking and spitting began to escalate, along with threats.


That truely doesn't sound like a "nice behaviour". But it's something, many 'normal' are confronted with .... when their chidren are at a certain age.

And especially those foster/adopting parents who 'get' children who really don't want to go there.

It seems that only the mother said (on that note):
Quote:
"This child is mentally unstable. He is violent and has severe psychopathic issues."


I couldn't find anywhere such quote from the examining child and adolescent psychiatrist. Or is that the profession of the US-mother?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:18 pm
@csantiba,
csantiba wrote:
We don't know the complete story.
We don 't.







csantiba wrote:
The russian people say before the adoption the boy was checked mentally and phisically and the results were OK.
How is that significant ?







csantiba wrote:
After that he travelled to the US wiht his "new mother",
six months later he is rejected in that horrible way, alone in an interconental fly with just a note... very awful.
How was it awful? She didn 't make him FLY the plane; he only had to SIT there for a while.
(Hopefully, he woud not set his shoes on fire.)






csantiba wrote:
Sometimes I think that she is not mentally OK.
She was NOT, being stressed by threats of arson.






csantiba wrote:
If she wanted sending him to Russia ...
Why she didn`t go with him ?
Was that necessary ??
Maybe she thawt that she 'd wasted enuf $$ on him.





csantiba wrote:
She acted cowardly.
Woud it be braver to let him burn down her house ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:22 pm
@csantiba,
csantiba wrote:
why she didn't go with him?? please, he is justs a 7 years old child.. She acted in a cowardly way...
Well, technically, he is not JUST a 7 year old child; he is ALSO an arsonist.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:28 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I think the adoptive mother may be a nurse. If that is the case, she definitely should have known there were other options, and that the child should have been properly evaluated. There was also a social worker who had evaluated the situation in January, and the mother could have contacted that person for help.

The child was adopted in September, if he didn't start to display aggressive behaviors until after January, he may well have been reacting to something going on in the home, or the way he was being treated by the adoptive mother.

I also heard that the adoptive mother may have have relinquished her parental rights to her own mother (the grandmother), and it was that person who put the child on the plane.

There may be some question about whether the adoption was ever finalized. If it had not been finalized, the mother should have contacted the Russian agency, told them the adoption wasn't working out, and then accompanied the child back to Russia.

No matter how you look at it, how the adoptive mother and the adoptive grandmother handled this situation was wrong.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:37 pm
15 years ago the German pet agencies in Munich refused to let Americans adopt animals because we could not be trusted to both take care of them and not abandon them, the Russians refusing to let us adopt children for the same reason would be a natural progression.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I cannot venture to guess whether that is sufficient
to arrest the inflamatory practices of pyromaniacs.
In some cases, drugs have been necessary to effect
cures; in other cases, no cure has been possible with currently available technology.

David
Walter Hinteler wrote:
But you do know that you are talking about a 7 year old CHILD????
Are u saying that makes it easier to restrain
his pyromaniacal obsession ?

I read elsewhere that he had actually been starting fires,
so his incendiary thawts found their way into the real world.

Maybe u can invite him to your house, Walter.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Well, technically, he is not JUST a 7 year old child; he is ALSO an arsonist.


Lord what a sick sick man we have here that placing a child on a plane is justify.

In any case we as a society need to throw the book at the mother to drive home the point that such behavior is not allow.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Are u saying that makes it easier to restrain
his pyromaniacal obsession ?

I read elsewhere that he had actually been starting fires,
so his incendiary thawts found their way into the real world.

Maybe u can invite him to your house, Walter.


I've nevere heard or read of "pyromaniacal obsession" as a (psychiatric) illness with children.
It's thought to be something which can be corrected by education - at least here and the literature I could find as well as to me own experience as social worker in psychiatric institutions and homes for children and youth.

According to the reports in printed US and Russian papers as well as to what I've read on the internet ... I really must have missed the source you, David, have read.

Well, I've worked with more "violent" children.
And it's not the question of inviting someone, he was adopted. Any child is a human being, with all the human faults, errors etc as well as with all the good sides.

Barbies are sold in toy shops.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
If the mother believed that this child was seriously mentally disturbed, that's even more reason not to put him on a plane alone, no matter where she was sending him.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:13 pm
THis thread is the only one that I can recall here at a2k where I could say that anyone who is not with the majority would do well to have their sanity checked.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:13 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Well, technically, he is not JUST a 7 year old child; he is ALSO an arsonist.


Well, technically, according to the definition by the U.S.
Department of Justice’s Office of Juvenile Delinquency and Prevention
(OJDP) children under the age of 8 are no arsonists. Even if he's been older (13+), he could be technically a "crisis firesetters".
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:23 pm
@firefly,
NOT having kids is a lot of fun.


David wrote:
Not even a biological son is tolerable
when he turns his attentions and intentions to malice against his benefactor
firefly wrote:
You are quite right, threatening or menacing behavior should not be tolerated.
It should be properly evaluated and treated.
The Russians can do that now, if thay wanna.




firefly wrote:
What this woman did is inexcusable.
In my opinion, there is nothing to excuse.





firefly wrote:
You don't put a young child on a plane by himself and send him back to another country--for any reason.
Explain the reason against it, please. Did something go rong? He seems to be intact (relatively speaking).
All he had to do was sit in a chair for a while. He was not going to jump out the window.





firefly wrote:
The biological mother may have been an alcoholic, so this child
may suffer from some degree of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or other
neurological impairment, which may predispose him to behavioral problems,
particularly problems with impulse control.
Impulse control is very important with pyromaniacs.
The foremost consideration was preservation of Mrs. Hansen ' s house intact, not explaining its loss, after the fact.








firefly wrote:
Severe impulse control problems can be associated with
explosive aggressive outbursts and behaviors like fire setting.
I suspect that Mrs. Hansen knows.
I genuinely feel sorry for her travail.






firefly wrote:
These behaviors can be very difficult for a parent to manage--that is why
they require professional intervention. Professional intervention would address treatment
of the child's behavior as well as advising the parent on how to manage it.
Do we know whether she ventured into psychological treatment ?





firefly wrote:
When you adopt a child, you are the one who becomes responsible for the child.
If the child displays psychiatric problems or behavioral problems,
you are the one responsible for seeking evaluation and treatment for the child.
She was defrauded; he was supposed to be normal, not malice incarnate.






firefly wrote:
Do we know whether this woman ever got evaluation or treatment for this child?
I don 't.


firefly wrote:
This woman had the option of voluntarily placing the child in foster care, in this country. By moving to do so, she would have involved Family Court in the situation. That would have resulted in evaluation of the child, proper diagnosis of the problem, and a treatment plan. The Court could then have the child placed in an appropriate foster care setting or treatment facility if the child placed a risk to others, or have him simply removed from the home if the adoptive mother's behavior toward him was abusive, or if she simply couldn't manage him.

A larger issue in all of this is whether the Russian agency sufficiently informed this woman of the child's background and any existing behavior problems prior to the adoption. A prospective adoptive parent should know these things.
That is Mrs. Hansen 's position.
She was defrauded by the Russians, who wanted to get rid of him.






firefly wrote:
I am reminded of the past flurry of adoptions from Romania when many adoptive parents found themselves with children with rather severe problems due to the past conditions of these children's lives.

Another issue is the fact that this sort of adoption, of an older child from a foreign country, can be extremely stressful for the child, particularly for a child who may not have adequate coping mechanisms to begin with. The child is removed from a world that is familiar to him--including his language, the foods he eats, his familiar caretakers, whatever attachments he has formed--and is placed in a strange new environment. This alone can trigger serious behavior problems in the child, and if the adoptive parent doesn't understand this, or fails to get appropriate professional help, or responds inappropriately, these problems intensify and escalate.

No matter what the situation was in this case, what the adoptive mother did, by putting that child on the plane, was wrong. She violated her state laws regarding child abandonment. She should be punished for that. She had other options and she should have used them.
I disagree that she was rong; in my opinion, her revoking the adoption
(or, more precisely, recognizing that the 7 year old boy had de facto revoked it) was a good and logical thing to do.
She needed to defend herself and her property. Self preservation is the first law of Nature.





David
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Second so far all we have is the word of two very sick and evil women that he is a fire setter of anykind.
0 Replies
 
 

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