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ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 12:53 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
He was certified to return kids to Russia?
I read that he was certified to transport kids who are wards of the state.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 01:02 am
This is what I read in an article:
Having bought a ticket and put the child on the plane, it seems Hansen found a Russian tour guide on the internet who agreed to meet the child at the airport.

And this was also in the same article
The single mother even paid an associate to take the boy straight to the ministry of education on his arrival at Moscow airport.

So what can one believe? Was the man an associate or just a guide she found over internet?

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 02:41 am
Quote:
I would like to set the record straight about how I became involved in this horrible story of an 8 year-old boy whose American parents abandoned him. It is my job to pick people up at the Domodedovo airport and take them where they need to go in Moscow or give them a tour of the city. I advertise my driving services on a website and am regularly contacted by Americans asking that I meet them at the airport. I had no idea of the circumstances surrounding this particular pick-up. Frankly, I'm still in shock. I will remember the feelings I experienced for a lifetime.

On April 6, 2010 I was contacted via e-mail by U.S. citizen Nancy Hansen, the adoptive grandmother of the now well-known Artem Saveliev (Justin Hansen). At the time I did not know that Artem was adopted by Nancy’s daughter Torrey on September 26, 2009, that he would be traveling alone, or the reasons for his travel to Moscow. This is her first letter:
I am interested in hiring you for a pick-up from DME (Domodedovo Airport) to the office of the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation on Monday April 12th. Could you please let me know the cost and if you are available on this date?

Since I did not have a lot of orders for the first half of April and I was home when the e-mail arrived, I answered immediately:
Dear Nancy,
Thank you for your interest in my services.
I am pleased to inform you that have not booked April 12 and can be available for you.
I charge $120 for meeting at Domodedovo airport with transfer to downtown of Moscow city.
If you want to book my services please send me details of your arrival (time, flight #, airlines), I use to check all arrivals online, so if your flight will have any delays don’t worry I will be informed about it.

She also replied to my letter almost instantly, within 10 minutes:.
Hi:
Thank you so much for your time. I am in the process of booking the flight and am trying to book a flight that arrives on Friday April 9th. If I can get this flight, would you be available on this date? I will send the information to you, once I know if you are available.
Thank you again,
Nancy

Nothing about these emails seemed out of the ordinary to me. Anything can happen; flights to Moscow are often crowded, since Russia remains one of the most attractive countries for tourists. It is a pity that we have not yet been very active in attracting tourists from the West, as do other countries, but all of us try as we can, including me. I replied:
Nancy,
I checked my schedule and have not clients on April 9, so no problem. Send me your confirmation and arrival details after booking your flight.
Arthur

After about 25 minutes I received another e-mail from Nancy Hansen where she informed me that the date of arrival had changed due to the availability of flights from Washington:
Hi Arthur:
The only flight that I was able to book arrives at DME on Thursday April 8th at 1045. Are you available for pick-up on this day and time? I have the flight infomation if you are:
Airline: United
Time: 1045
Flight #: 964
Thank you for your time,
Nancy

Since I was having dinner with my wife when her e-mail came in, I wasn’t able to reply to Nancy’s letter until an hour and a half later. I was glad that she did not buy a ticket for April 7 because I was already booked that day for a country tour in Istria and Zvenigorod with my clients, Stuart and Virginia Stewart from the USA (Oklahoma), who were making a return visit to Russia to see their relatives working and living in Moscow.
Sorry for some delay, I had to meet my wife from work and it was time for supper 
I will be working tomorrow full day, but on April 8 (the day after tomorrow) I had not big plans so I can meet you at Domodedovo. Where are you going to stay in Moscow
To easy recognize each other in arrivals hall I will hold a card (A4 format) in my hands, I am blonde, not tall, my photo you can see/print here: http://www.moscow-driver.com/bphoto57.html
My cell: +x xxx xxx xxxx.
Please confirm.

Half an hour later, I received her confirmation:
Hi Arthur:
Thank you for confirming that you will be there for pick-up at DME. For payment would you prefer US Dollars or Russian Rubles?
Thank you again for your time,
Nancy

Within 10 minutes I replied to her about the amount of services and confirmed the details of our meeting at the airport, on April 8:
Hi Nancy,
Any currency that will be convenient for you: $120 USD, 90 EURO or 3600 RUBLES.
See you on Thursday at 10:45 am in arrivals hall of Domodedovo airport (you will enter in this hall after passing customs/passport control and taking your luggage).
If you have any questions or additional requests, please, don’t hesitate to ask me.
With BEST Regards from Moscow,
Arthur

Note that in all of our correspondence she never once told me that she would not be the one to meet me at the airport. I was fully convinced that she would be the one meeting me! It was only after our meeting had been confirmed that she sent me more specific details. The e-mail came in the next morning, April 7, 2010 at 8:00 am Moscow time:
Hi Arthur:
The pick-up on Thursday will be for an 8 year old boy named Artem Hansen. A United Airlines Customer Service Agent will escort him to the hall to meet you (you will need to show ID). The United Airlines customer service agent will hand you an envelope. Inside the envelope are 2 envelopes. One is an envelope for the Ministry of Education, Tverskaya Street, 11, Moscow. The other envelope will be addressed to you. Inside will be your payment in US Dollars. I would like for you to please escort Artem into the Office of the Ministry of Education. If you could please give me your fee for this additional service, I will enclose it in your envelope.
Thank you for your time.
Warmest regards,
Nancy

That morning I was quite busy. I sent my wife to work at 7:00 and checked the mail to answer the most important correspondence. I was in a hurry and could not finish everything because I had to meet my clients Stuart and Virginia at 9:00. We had planned a trip out of town to visit the wonderful historical and spiritual places in Istra (New Jerusalem) and Zvenigorod (Savin-Storodgevsky abode), and on the way back to Moscow to stay at the beautiful Preobrazhenia Church in the Small Vyazemy where Pushkin came to pray on the way to the estate of his grandmother in Zakharov. I was surprised to read this letter, because I was fully convinced that I was supposed to meet Nancy, not the child, but there was no time to think. Then it occurred to me that the boy was probably going to study or returning to school, and this made me feel better. I sent a confirmation and I asked her who I was to meet at the Ministry of Education:
Hi Nancy,
I have got all information and will do the best, don’t worry.
I will be pleased to meet Artem and see him off to the Ministry of Education on Tverskaya street 11. Please advise if somebody has to meet us there. I don’t request additional fee, its my pleasure 
I would like to confirm that I will be in arrivals hall of Domodedovo tomorrow (April 8th) at 10:45 am meeting flight UA #964. Artem and the agent from UA customer service will find me easily holding a name tag of my client (Artem Hansen) in my hands. I am blonde, not tall, my picture is here http://www.moscow-driver.com/bphoto57.html My cell: +x xxx xxx xxxx.
I you wish I can send you confirmation when my job will be done.
With BEST Regards from Moscow,
Arthur

She answered:
Hi Arthur:
The information you have is correct (April 8th at 10:45 am meeting Artem Hansen on flight UA #964). If you could take Artem inside the Office of the Ministry of Education, give possession of the envelope and Artem to the receptionist and send me confirmation when your job is done, I would be most appreciative. I have enclosed a total of $200 US Dollars for you. Thank you so much for your time.
Warmest regards,
Nancy

I had no time to respond to this letter. I arrived home from work late that night tired but elated by the fact that the day was so sunny and beautiful, and that my clients were delighted by what they saw and the services I provided. I switched on the computer once again to check mail and read her letter (above). To tell the truth my good mood from the lovely day disappeared. It was too late for me to back out because of the time difference. If I did not meet the child at the airport, he would have been stranded. I work so hard to do everything the right way and to make my clients feel comfortable. I have a lot of great comments and friends from around the world, especially in the U.S. How could I refuse? I would not have survived thinking that the boy was left alone at the airport. So, despite my doubts I said about 8 pm:
Dear Nancy,
Just returned back to my home from countryside tour with my clients.
Thank you for your confidence. I will do everything you asked and will send you confirmation after.
Do you want to spoil me?  I appreciate it of course and will do everything the best to work out the amount of money you sent me.
With BEST Regards from Moscow,
Arthur

Here, I want to refute the erroneous reporting that I have seen on some TV channels, newspapers and internet news. In my correspondence with Nancy, there was no cynical bargaining; I never asked for additional money. Nancy voluntarily gave me a tip to show her thanks, which is a customary practice in the U.S. I have added it into the bill for my services. With all due respect to the news reporters, I wish to state that they have been misinformed. I was not trying to cheat my client. I refused to take more money when she inquired about the additional fee for taking the boy to the Ministry of Education. When she told me that money had already been sent, I included additional income in an official invoice for my services.

Nancy Hansen used me. She misled me by not providing all the information. I had no idea that boy was once adopted and was being returned. I only learned later of her apparent flagrant violation of the law on adoption, detailed in the next section.

With sadness in my voice,
Arthur Lookyanov
Last edited: April 10, 2010
http://www.moscow-driver.com/news/2010-04-09.html
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 05:20 am
@Francis,
David wrote:
It woud be grossly abusive to send him to Russia!
Francis wrote:
But according to your previous statements,
one would think it's a good punishment for arsonist kids..
I can see your choice of words ("punishment")
in light of the fact of his repeated threats, followed by
executions of those threats by actually starting fires; i.e.,
I can understand reciprocal anger with a desire a desire for vengeance,
for those reasons, but I did not think of his deportation
as a punishment, as much of raising a defensive shield
consisting of 1000s of miles of water.

Of course, as a practical matter, the result is the same,
regardless of the motivation.

I take the inference that the boy rejected his new home,
judging from his continually threatening to burn it down,
drawing pictures of it going up in flames and actually starting fires;
i.e., he did NOT choose to be there and he was emotionally aversive to it.

Accordingly, Mrs. Hansen granted his request to be elsewhere,
like where he came from. Presumably, Mrs. Hansen originally desired
to have loving relations with the boy. In return, she found negative emotions, in the extreme,
directed against her, for her hospitality. I don 't think that 's a viable situation.

Do u think it is, Francis?
(Please do not direct my attention to his age; I already know that.)

I don 't KNOW, but I suspect,
that as we speak, he is happier in Russia than he was in Mrs. Hansen 's home.
Of course, I have no way of knowing whether his incendiary threats continue or not.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 05:24 am
@roger,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, since that is a common problem, young children from the age of 3 are taught how
to use fire correctly, in the kindergarten.

roger wrote:
Christ on a crutch, Walter.
We have had kids expelled from school for showing up with an undersized,
obvious toy plastic gun. What do you think we would do if one showed up with a match?
One girl was expelled for a photograf of herself sitting on a US Army battle tank. She had joined the Army.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 05:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Accordingly, Mrs. Hansen granted his request to be elsewhere,
like where he came from. Presumably, Mrs. Hansen originally desired
to have loving relations with the boy. In return, she found negative emotions, in the extreme,
directed against her, for her hospitality. I don 't think that 's a viable situation.


And you are very comfortable taking the word of a clear nut case over the behavior of this child?
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 07:03 am
This Russian boy grew up with an alcoholic mother and probably never learnt to express feelings. From there to an orphange - a new inviroment. By the time he knows how to get around there off to USA.
A new language, new people and probably a new way of showing feelings.
After 6 months he might be able to speak English, but does he know how to really express himself regarding feelings.
'The painting of a burning house can only be judged by seeing the painting, seeing the colors and other details.
It might not mean he wants to burn down the house. It could also mean he shows by fire his own confused feelings in the new house.
It could mean that he is overwhelmed by the feelings and mothering by Mrs Hansen.
Only a good psychologist used to interperent pictures made by children will be able to understand what he really means.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 07:16 am
@csantiba,
Quote:
I'm in agreement with you. Since she adopted him it was supposed because she loved him and he would be her SON. What kind of love is rejecting a son like a disposable product? This news dissapoints me a lot.


This kid doesn't have a future here, in Russia, or anywhere else. The Russians fucked up here; if they want ANY of their orphans to be adoptable, anywhere, they should not be playing games like this on anybody.

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 07:22 am
http://www.amazon.com/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-World-Psychopaths/dp/1572304510


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510LdLUaUXL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Robert Hare is the world's foremost expert on psychopaths and what makes them tick. He says they are born, and not made, and that there is no such thing as a parent of a full-blown psychopathic child who would not be happy to hand the child over to some government agency at age six or seven.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 07:34 am

As I consider the matter,
it occurs to me that the Hansen girls
may well have been aware of the potential future with this boy, to wit:

1. he might improve 100%, to be normal
2. he might improve, less than 100%, remaining a psychopath
3. he might remain equally mentally deranged
4. he might get a lot worse, and stronger, more able to inflict his malice as he grew in stature & musculature.

Upon their contemplation of the peril in which thay stood
because of the Russians' fraud in the adoption process,
it is logically clear that the danger was INTOLERABLE
and woud probably get worse with time.


I give them credit and my admiration
for doing the logical defensive thing.

If thay had adopted an animal who turned vicious,
then no one woud question their choice to reject him n return him.

The only reason for all of this concern
is that the danger is HUMAN.

That is not a good reason
for the victims (now and in the future) to expose themselves to that DANGER.





David
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 09:31 am
Quote:
We don't even know if the things she has said about the child are true.


I believe her.

I don't think what she did was right, she certainly should have involved American social services and should have never put the child on a plane back to Russia.

But I believe everything she's said and I believe there is PLENTY of blame to go around.

I have a child with attachment issues. We've been to therapy. To a therapist recommended by my friend who adopted a child from Russia (this child is currently on anti-psychotic medications).

I grew up alongside a family who had a failed adoption beause of such issues. It wrecked this family.

There is an A2Ker who had a failed adoption because of these issues.

If you haven't lived it, you have no idea what it's like. That's complicated by the fact that nobody believes you.

I don't agree with what this mom did but I do have some sympathy for her.

America should be the ones to call a halt to adoptions from Russia.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 09:52 am
@boomerang,
If she had involved American social services,
she might have lost control of the situation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 09:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

2. he might improve, less than 100%, remaining a psychopath
The only reason for all of this concern
is that the danger is HUMAN.

... ... ... ...


That is not a good reason
for the victims (now and in the future) to expose themselves to that DANGER.


David


I sincerely doubt, David, that you have the slightest idea what a psychopath is.

NB: if this boy really would be a psychopath, it would be the first ever know child. (Well, leaving aside what e.g. Paul Frick and Robert Hare said. Generally it is though that all children aren't adults and thus can't be "measured" with paradigms used for adults.)


The victim is the child.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:05 am
I think, when I read boomerang reply, and when I subsume David's post: it might well be that adoption in the USA is looked at differently than it is here: adopting parents here are aware that they don't get an adopted child from a "100%-best-children" catalogue but that nearly all have certain .... 'disabilities'.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:07 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

America should be the ones to call a halt to adoptions from Russia.


Does Russia offer those children for adoption or do US-Americans go to Russian agencies and adopt children those agencies offer?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:

2. he might improve, less than 100%, remaining a psychopath
The only reason for all of this concern
is that the danger is HUMAN.

... ... ... ...


That is not a good reason
for the victims (now and in the future) to expose themselves to that DANGER.


David


I sincerely doubt, David, that you have the slightest idea what a psychopath is.

NB: if this boy really would be a psychopath, it would be the first ever know child.
(Well, leaving aside what e.g. Paul Frick and Robert Hare said.
Generally it is though that all children aren't adults and thus can't be "measured" with paradigms used for adults.)


The victim is the child.
What is the reason for leaving aside
what Paul Frick and Robert Hare said ?

The child is the victim of that mental disorder,
tho, in turn, he will inflict himself, his abuses, upon too many
innocent victims, but NOT the Hansen girls.

THAY took matters in hand.

I bow and tip my hat to them !





David
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I believe they work through American adoption agencies.

Russia offers the children for adoption and US agencies place them with families.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I think, when I read boomerang reply, and when I subsume David's post: it might well be that adoption in the USA is looked at differently than it is here: adopting parents here are aware that they don't get an adopted child from a "100%-best-children" catalogue but that nearly all have certain .... 'disabilities'.
According to the facts with which we were presented,
the Russians examined him and (fraudulently) OK'd him,
just to get rid of him; i.e., their deception,
was the basis of the adoption.





David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:13 am
@OmSigDAVID,
She'd already lost control of the situation.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:17 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
She'd already lost control of the situation.
YES, but her handling of the matter resulted in a successful defense from the fraud,
essentially RESTORING the status quo ante.
 

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