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ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 06:46 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I remember being afraid to go to Phoenix, back in the early eighties, all those people packing guns, and what I heard were all the roads around the city with bars/et al with a lot of gun folk and booze, well lit.

I admit my then view was also a page of fear of the unknown. Still, many years later, I am still more comfortable around people talking, discussing, arguing, enraged even.. if none have guns on their belts.






I think you paint armageddon, David.
The refutation of Armageddon, Osso, is that Vermont became a State c.1791.
Since (and before) then, Vermont has never had any anti-gun laws, WITHOUT Armageddon.

Open carry or Concealed carry with no licensure: OK, no problem.

About maybe ten years ago,
the State of Alaska repealed its anti-gun laws.
(I m not sure if some municipalities still have some or not.)
There was no Armageddon.

Quad Est Demonstratum: gun freedom does not cause Armageddon.





David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 06:52 pm
@dyslexia,
Thank you.

And you know the really silly thing? There are pretty good support services for people who adopt from foster care.

I knew this to be a fact but Mo's other mom trusted me with Mo and I would have never ever sent him to foster care.

Besides, I never thought I'd end up adopting him when the whole thing started.

Go figure!
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 06:54 pm
@boomerang,
Aw, we saw it coming a mile away.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 07:08 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:
However, you uttered at many occasions your happiness that you couldn't be subject to parricide as you had no progeny. From what, I inferred that you feared parricide and, on a more general acception, that you fear for your life..
Your impression is false, as to my emotions (I have nothing to fear),
but I suggest to everyone that appropriate caution be observed.

The matter is not limited to homicide; I 've observed, especially thru the news,
that many inconveniences present themselves attendant to parenting,
but thay do not annoy me, because I have rendered myself IMMUNE thereto!
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 07:30 pm
@roger,
Yeah, but you guys are WAY smarter than me.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 08:11 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
But it doesn't take full blown RAD for these issues to present themselves.

I have a kid with "attachment issues". We have done attachment therapy. At times living with him was very scary. He was incredibly cruel to me. Meaner than most people can imagine a child being. He was darling to almost everyone else ("parent shopping", the therapist called it).

Everyone thought I was nuts and making stuff up.

Just like they're doing with these women.
For a layman, what are attachment issues?
What is attachment therapy?
How was he mean ?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 08:15 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
It's complicated.

Let me sleep on your questions and perhaps I'll PM you with answers if that's okay.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 08:24 pm
@dyslexia,
There has been a significant decrease in the number of adoptions from Russia over the past several years. People may have gotten leery about such adoptions because of publicity about children with substantial problems.

One reason why Torry Hansen might have gone to Russia to adopt was because she wanted a white child. As a single woman, she might have had a harder time finding a white child in the U.S.

She did have resources she didn't use. Hansen was not left to fend for herself with this child. The adoption agency claims they were available to her.

Quote:

A statement released by Adoption Assistance, Inc. said the child appeared to be adjusting and the mother was enthusiastic during a visit by a social worker in January. But by late March, the agency has been unable to get in touch with her.

"Our agency worked diligently to locate the mother, including e-mails and calls to the client's mother, with no success," the statement said.

The agency said that part of their services includes providing families with education on issues like attachment, bonding, behavioral issues and behaviors associated with institutionalized children.

"If this mother would have contacted us when the adjustment problems began, we would have worked with her on the issues or arranged alternative placement," the agency said.
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/sheriff-mom-not-talking-457294.html


So, for the first four months of the adoption, things seemed to be working out well. That does suggest that the little boy is not quite as seriously disturbed as Hansen alleged. Apparently he was able to make a fairly good adjustment to the home for four months, and that's a good stretch of time. Then something happened and they wanted to get rid of him. But they didn't contact the adoption agency about it, and they even made themselves unavailable to the agency. That just doesn't sound right. Something about this seems very fishy. What was going on in that home, and what were the adoptive mother and grandmother up to?

The local Sheriff is having difficulty obtaining information about Hansen because no one seems to know her well. She doesn't appear to have socialized in her community very much at all. And now she's in hiding and her lawyer says she won't answer any questions unless they file charges against her. They are looking into filing various charges against her.

Hansen may not have another child. Some of the news reports said the Russian child played with a 10 year old "cousin" in the home. That child might be Hansen's nephew, and not a son. The 10 year old wasn't enrolled in school and there is no record of his being registered for home schooling. The Russian child hadn't been enrolled in school either.

I wonder why she didn't enroll the Russian boy in school. The school would have done some evaluation of the child, and if any behavior problems arose in the classroom, they could have addressed them. They could have been another resource for this woman. School would also have given the 7 year old something to do during the day, and provided him with some structure. He couldn't have had very much to do just being around the house all day, with possibly only a "cousin" to play with, and that "cousin" might not even have been living in the home. Just leaving the child so unoccupied might have given rise to problems.

It is as though this woman went out of her way to avoid getting any help with her situation. At the very least, she could have used the adoption agency and a school as resources. That she didn't involve anyone else in her situation doesn't make sense, if she was really having such extreme problems with the child. Perhaps the mother and the grandmother should not be believed. Perhaps they fabricated the story about the child being severely disturbed and dangerous, because it sounded plausible, given the types of problems other adopted children from Russia have displayed. Perhaps they just found the child to be a pain in the neck, or maybe he wasn't easily disciplined and threw tantrums, or maybe he sulked and cried a lot, or maybe he was intellectually slow, or maybe he wet the bed, or maybe he just wasn't the child they had hoped for. But something seems to have happened, after the first four months, to cause them to sour on this child and want to get rid of him. But, instead of turning to the adoption agency for help, they hid from the agency and ignored their communications, and, instead, they hatched their bizarre scheme to send the child back to Russia, by himself. This just doesn't make any logical sense.

I just think there is a big part of this story that is missing. There is a limit to how long this woman can stay in hiding. I do believe charges will eventually be filed against her. We may never know the true story. The mother and the grandmother appear somewhat secretive and socially isolated. Consequently, no one else appears to have had contact with the child, or even observed him at any length, for the 6 months he was in their care. No one can come forward to say that the child behaved normally, no one can say that the child appeared disturbed. The only report, from the adoption agency, was made in January, and that noted no problems. Did something happen in that home, after January, that caused a change in the child's behavior? We have only the word of the mother and the grandmother regarding why they returned him to Russia in such a bizarre and irresponsible manner. I really don't know how much we can believe them.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 08:29 pm
@firefly,
interesting angle....to me it looks like she wanted perfection and when she realized that she did not have it she cut and ran, but your take has plausibility.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 08:37 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
It's complicated.

Let me sleep on your questions and perhaps I'll PM you with answers if that's okay.
Sure, its fine.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 10:04 pm
I do know about one dozen people personally from our region, who often travel to orphan homes in Russia, bringing various stuff and there as support.

Various Catholic and Protestant homes are more or less directly supported from Germany.

Today, in many Russian oblasts/republics/krais etc the homes are often run by private/church charities.
The standard is below what we know in the EU, but even there are differences.

To say generally, that "overseas" orphan homes are bad, is a bit generalising, I think.

Here, no-one makes money with adoption because such would be illegal. And like anything illegal, it happens, of course. (Only recently, a private agency which 'transferred about 500 Russian children via USA to Germany and took money from the adopters, was procecuted for child trafficking. (I didn't follow the news what happened with children because those adoption against money aren't legalised.)
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 10:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, in America it's only called child trafficing if you cut out the middle man and try to sell your baby on craigslist.

(Or if you lure a teenage girl into prostitution.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 11:15 pm
@boomerang,
I've learnt such now.

On the other, the USA signed the Convention of 29 May 1993 on Protection of Children and Co-operation in Respect of Intercountry Adoption, too, only in 2008, but they signed it.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 11:55 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Aw, we saw it coming a mile away.
I saw it TWO miles away....what did you say it was again ??
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 01:08 am
@Ionus,
Now it looks like the child could possibly be returned to the United States....

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New York Times
April 12, 2010
Child in Adoption Case Is an American Citizen, Not Russian, Experts Say

By DAMIEN CAVE and CLIFFORD J. LEVY
Russian officials and the sheriff in Shelbyville, Tenn., have both raised questions about whether the 7-year-old boy sent back to Moscow by his adoptive mother and grandmother last week is really a United States citizen.

But they appear to be wrong. Tennessee adoption lawyers and national experts said Monday that the boy became an American the day he reached American soil last September and that, legally, he should be returned to the United States.

“This child is a U.S. citizen,” said Chuck Johnson, acting chief executive of the National Council for Adoption, which is working with the State Department to place the boy if he returns. “The parental rights are still in effect.”

A tug-of-war over the boy’s nationality has begun. As prosecutors in Tennessee consider whether the adoptive mother, Torry Ann Hansen, and her mother, Nancy Hansen, will be charged with abandonment or neglect " and as new details emerged about their interactions with social workers " the international dispute over what will happen to the boy they named Justin has intensified.

On Monday, Russian officials said the American government had no right to be involved because the boy they call Artyom Savelyev was not an American citizen.

The federal children’s ombudsman, Pavel Astakhov, said at a news conference that Moscow health officials and child welfare officials disagreed over whether the boy should remain in Moscow, be adopted in Russia or be sent back to the orphanage in Russia’s Far East.

For any of that to happen, however, Ms. Hansen would first have to relinquish her rights, according to adoption lawyers in Tennessee.

The Hansens have yet to announce their intentions. Sheriff Randall Boyce of Bedford County, who on Monday acknowledged that the boy probably had dual American and Russian citizenship, said he had been told by the Hansens’ lawyer that they would speak only if they were charged with a crime.

Whether that will happen is an open question, and Sheriff Boyce appeared reticent. He said he told the State Department, “Do you not feel that this is over the sheriff department’s head?”

Charles Crawford, the district attorney for Shelbyville, said prosecuting the family would be difficult. “Making it a child abuse case without the child being available to testify is a very tall order,” he said.

Still, adoption experts said there would seem to be a strong case for criminal or civil charges of abandonment or neglect. Family law, they said, considers adoptive parents the equals of biological parents, responsibilities included.

“You can’t leave your child in a place where it’s reasonably foreseeable that they could be injured or psychologically injured,” said Dawn Coppock, an adoption lawyer in Strawberry Plains, Tenn.

New details about the boy’s arrival in Russia suggest that the Hansens completed his travel plans at the last second. Nancy Hansen located an English-speaking guide over the Internet to pick up the boy at the airport and take him to the Education and Science Ministry. But the guide, Artur Lukyanov, told Russian television he had learned only at the last moment that he was supposed to pick up the boy, not Ms. Hansen herself.

The family apparently came to its decision about what to do with the boy without seeking the help of the United Way of Bedford County, the Tennessee Department of Children’s Services and a social service agency in Shelbyville. All said the Hansens had not contacted them.

And the agency that conducted home visits before and after Justin’s adoption, Adoption Assistance, in Smyrna, Tenn., released a statement Monday saying the Hansens had not told its social worker about the severity of their concerns. In January, the statement said, a social worker found that “the child appeared to be adjusting to his new home and family and his mother was enthusiastic about his accomplishments.”

Nancy Hansen has said the boy became a problem later. Adoption Assistance said, “If this mother would have contacted us when the adjustment problems began, we would have worked with her on the issues or arranged alternative placement.”
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 01:47 am
@firefly,
wow, does that just make the mother look dumber than she already did! (statement, not question). She was never informed of his citizenship status??? I can't believe that.

That all bulks up nicely my argument that they dumped this kid without making an effort to solve the problem.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 03:24 am
@firefly,
Lets keep our fingers crossed for the little mite....he could use a good break from his bad luck...
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:21 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

wow, does that just make the mother look dumber than she already did! (statement, not question). She was never informed of his citizenship status??? I can't believe that.

That all bulks up nicely my argument that
they dumped this kid without making an effort to solve the problem.
That is HOW thay solved the problem; it worked.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:49 am
@firefly,
Firefly,
if u impugn the Hansens' veracity using speculative language,
then anyone familiar with elementary logic will know that your assertions MUST be true,
regardless of WHO are the targets of your skepticism.

However, in the fullness of respect,
lemme offer this observation:
the Hansens went to a lot of trouble and expense
to get this boy from Russia. Thay MUST have wanted him, a lot.
Thay did not get him just to reject him.

It seems very likely to me
that he did something radically unacceptable against the Hansens
(such as what thay complained of).

It became necessary to defend themselves
and their real property, as fast as possible, before he succeeded
in executing his malice upon them. To me, that seems most likely.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:55 am

Problems in this relationship may have started AFTER
the January meeting with the adoption agency.
 

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