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ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:44 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
I wonder what kind, if any, help he got at the orphanage.


There are reports in various Russian newspapers that at least three families have now stepped forward to adopt Artyom.

The orphanage, where he had been is described by people from a German charity, who have helped there/donated to them, as above 'normal' Russian standards. (Which means, it still is doubtable that would be allowed here.)
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:46 pm
@boomerang,
Reading through these and also several news reports - I tend to agree with Boomerang's thoughts (of course being far from an expert). Having friends who have adopted overseas, it is a very difficult and costly endeavor. Potential parents do not do this willie nillie (except if you are a celebrity and can get an adoption over night). So I doubt this woman did this as a whim.

Also, not knowing the full background of the child (and as boomerang explained) - did she ever go through anything that helped her learn what sort of issues could arise? Fortunately for my friends, they went through an agency that worked with them about attachment issues and other more common types of problems they would more likely see.

But would happen if something worse happened? Would one know how to handle it? Would they be able to get the necessary resources and help? I could only imagine that after wanting and desiring a child for so long that she would have to be at her whit's end to send him back? I agree this was not the best way to handle it (or even near so) - but maybe giving the benefit of the doubt - she just did not know how to cope any longer...
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:52 pm
@Linkat,
this American woman worked through an adoption agency in America, who from I can see was never contacted about either a problem or a desire to end the adoption. Sorry, but deciding that this kid was disposable and sending him back alone is not defensible when even the preliminary courses of action to fix the problem were not tried.

From I see this woman contacted a shrink by phone, got a rough idea of what the kid's problem is, then contacted a lawyer to find out how she could shed him. This is horrible.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:58 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:

But I'll say again -- I'll bet there aren't any Russian speaking child therapists in Shelbyville, TN.


according to the guy who collected the kid at the airport the kid does not speak Russian.
Quote:
We proceeded to the department. I did not leave Artem Hansen for a minute, because by now I knew he didn’t speak Russian. I translated the questions he was asked by employees and the boy’s answers. The boy entered the country on
http://www.moscow-driver.com/news/2010-04-10.html
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:59 pm
@boomerang,
I don´t know if a therapist has to be able to speak Russian - as I really do not know how much a childtherapist depends on speaking all the time. Often they ask a child to draw pictures, play special games with them and speak on another level than with a grown up.
It could maybe also be with a translater and beside the boy might speak some English.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
As I stated, I am not agreeing with how this was handle - not at all. But it is possible she did try to reach out to others and felt helpless.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:02 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
But it is possible she did try to reach out to others and felt helpless.
Possible, but if so why is no one talking? Why is no one defending her?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:07 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Just because someone doesn't have, or want, or even like, children, doesn't necessarily make their positions automatically untenable.

Someone can chose not to have children, but still understand and know that parents, those people who do have children, are bound by certain legal obligations to those children. David's positions are untenable because he is advocating disregard of child welfare/protection laws. He is, therefore, advocating child abuse and neglect. That is not a morally, or legally, defensible position.
---------------------------------------------


Thank you, sozobe

Generally speaking, for the most part, I like children,
depending on their personalities and personal conduct, if thay r reasonably decent.
I do not like nor dislike anyone merely for being below
nor above a certain age.

I have seen some very unlikable children,
e.g. the child of a former girlfriend of mine
who was chronically, very persistently,
extremely rude and hurtful to her mother,
and to a lesser extent to others, to whom she became a pariah.
I did not like that girl (tho I gave her jewelry anyway [financed it], just for the hell of it).


As to your comments qua legal requirements,
I object that any such statute is subject to and subordinate to, the Constitutional Right of self-defense.


The Hansen girls were in danger of getting burned up.

By the way, Firefly: u have a very beautiful NAME.
Here in NY, we call them Lightning Bugs.
Thay are always very, very welcome here.
It is always a great delight to see them arrive in the Summer.





David
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:09 pm
@Linkat,
I could only imagine that after wanting and desiring a child for so long that she would have to be at her whit's end to send him back?

_____________________________________________________
Linkat,
the mother is a single mother who already has a son. Why should she then be wanting and desiring another child for so long?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
But it is possible she did try to reach out to others and felt helpless.
Possible, but if so why is no one talking? Why is no one defending her?
U make it sound as if that is what people always DO, instead of mind their own business.





David
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:13 pm
@Linkat,
One thing is for sure - as boomerang stated - these adoption agencies should be clear that there could and will be issues; they should also be clear as is possible what each child has been through. That way before a child is sent to a new home, the parent can make an informed decision if they are up to the task.

I think like you said boomerang that this could "scare" (rightfully so) some parents from adopting. You don't want a bad match up.

I know when I went to an animal shelter, they had the history of the pet and what sort of a family would be right - they wouldn't allow you to adopt unless you were the right fit. Now why wouldn't they do this in the case of a child that has certain issues? Make sure it is a parent that can work with such a child?
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:14 pm
@saab,
I am a mom with two children - we have talked about adopting another - the only thing holding us back is financially. It is a long process to adopt even overseas and it is expensive.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:15 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U make it sound as if that is what people always DO, instead of mind their own business.


Certainly! This is America....we dont tend to mind our own business.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'd imagine alot has to do with the legal crap.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
The kid grew up in Russia and he didn't speak Russian?

Really?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:17 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:
Well, I didn't made myself clear, it was obvious to me that David feared parricide
and that's the reason he has such an absurd discourse.
I have never been exposed to the danger of patricide, hence I have had no occasion to fear it.

However, I (ex post facto and empathetically) feared matricide against Torrey.





David
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:23 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
However, you uttered at many occasions your happiness that you couldn't be subject to parricide as you had no progeny. From what, I inferred that you feared parricide and, on a more general acception, that you fear for your life..
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:23 pm
@Linkat,
I did not say she should not have adopted a child, but you said she had been longing for a child for a long time.
There is a difference is wanting one more child and having no children at all.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:31 pm
The Russians are playing hardball:

Quote:

The boy whose Tennessee mother put him on a plane alone bound for his native Russia has none of the issues that allegedly caused her to turn her back on him, according to a new report.

Torry Hansen said that 7-year-old Artyom "Justin" Savelyev was “violent and has severe psychopathic issues.”

But this morning Pavel Astokhov, Russia's children's rights commissioner, told ABC’s “Good Morning America” that the child has shown no issues.

"No, no this is not true," Astokhov said. "How can you imagine this, [that] a 7-year-old boy can be dangerous?"

Astokhov also said that Hansen was fully briefed on Savelyev’s health before she adopted him.


see more videos "All medical exams was done before the adoption procedure," Astokhov said, "and Torry Hansen knew about Artyem, everything."

Astokhov also disclosed that doctors in Russia discovered "some scars and some bodily injuries" on the boy when he returned, ABC reported



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/adopted_russian_boy_shows_no_psychological_fE5zfed9vHb7g92Sn1czEO?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=#ixzz0kv5h4UYm


I don't think is has been mentioned that the adoptive mom is a nurse. This plays two ways, one she sure as **** should have known better both about the possible problems and than to do what she did. But also I can well imagine that after dealing with sick and problematic people all day that she decided that she needed a perfect child.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:46 pm
@saab,
Longing for another child - semantics
0 Replies
 
 

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