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ADOPTED RUSSIAN BOY REJECTED, IN SELF DEFENSE

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 11:58 am
@ossobuco,
Quote:
self defense, and that underlying the continual posting about it is a seemingly constant fear of harm from others to you and others, a kind of fear based living.


David is a nut however beside him I do not think anyone is giving credit to the idea that self defense of any nature is involved in this matter.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:06 pm
What this video

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/adopted-boy-back-russia-sign-mental-issues-problems-officials/story?id=10349424

doesn't mention, along with 99% of the other information floating around is...

Quote:
•In disinhibited RAD, the child participates in diffuse attachments, indiscriminate sociability, and excessive familiarity with strangers. The child has repeatedly lost attachment figures or has had multiple caregivers and has never had the chance to develop a continuous and consistent attachment to at least one caregiver. Disruption of one attachment relationship after another causes the infant to renounce attachments. The usual anxiety and concern with strangers is not present, and the infant or child superficially accepts anyone as a caregiver (as though people were interchangeable) and acts as if the relationship had been intimate and life-long.


If this kid is RAD he will be superficially very charming. Only when forced to interact with a specific caregiver for a length of time will the issues come up again.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:08 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
saab wrote:

You are extremely bias when it comes to adopted children.

Its better not to take unnecessary chances.
Keep a respectful, friendly distance.
______________________________________________

How do you know when to keep a respectful, friendly distance to adopted persons?
It is not written on their forehead, nor do they have to carry a sign around the neck telling they are adopted. Most people don´t even tell anybody that they are adopted. They are/should be so intergrated in their family they don´t even think about it themselves.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:17 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
If this kid is RAD he will .........


The problem is he was not seen by any expert in the field of mental health as that would be more of a burden to the two ladies then just shipping him off back to Russia.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:25 pm
@BillRM,
Agreed.

But I'll say again -- I'll bet there aren't any Russian speaking child therapists in Shelbyville, TN.

Finding a therapist who literate in RAD isn't that easy. I can't imagine having to finding one who also speaks Russian.

I'm not excusing what these women did. I'm just saying that finding help isn't quite as easy as everyone seems to think it is.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:30 pm
@boomerang,
I'll verify that, boom.

Lived in S-ville for a year before I moved back to the prairie.

Not sure about Nashville, which is less than an hour North. (i doubt it, though)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:30 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

If this kid is RAD he will be superficially very charming. Only when forced to interact with a specific caregiver for a length of time will the issues come up again.


When you're referring to the forms how described in ICD-10 F94.1 and ICD-10 F94.2, you know that the diagnosis is very difficult (since it be some form of mental retardation, or autism, or ...).

I believe it to be impossible to exam that child just be reading newspaper reports and what some persons say.

But may be that I'm wrong.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:32 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
I'm not excusing what these women did. I'm just saying that finding help isn't quite as easy as everyone seems to think it is.


Easy or hard to find they seem to had done nothing to engage that help!

Second the boy was able to communicated that he was thinking about burning down the home by the two women claims so the communication/language barrier for the boy seem kind of small.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:43 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Easy or hard to find they seem to had done nothing to engage that help!


"Seem" being the operative word here. We don't know, do we?

Most therapist (that I've talked to) won't work with kids under the age of five because they simply don't have the vocabulary or the insight into themselves to benefit from therapy.

"I'm going to burn down the house"

is quite different from

"I feel betrayed by all the people who were supposed to care for me so I'm fighting back in the only way I can -- by seeing if I can make them hate me too."


-----------

Thanks Rockhead. I'd love to know how far away a therapist specializing in RAD was to them.

-----------

Me too, Walter, but I hope we learn the truth about what actually happened. It is terribly hard to diagnose, probably because the behaviors are acted out only on certain individuals. (I don't know what those forms are.)
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 12:54 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang, I think it is unlikely this child has RAD. That generally occurs when an infant is raised in an institutional setting, with multiple caregivers and not enough physical handling and consistent contact with caretakers. Severe attachment disorders generally develop in infancy. They are due to the deprivation of even minimal, consistent social and physical contact with an adult, so, due to a lack of proper nurturing, the child fails to develop any initial primary attachment bond, and this affects all subsequent relationships. These children may also display a failure to thrive.

This Russian child may have had a neglectful or abusive alcoholic mother, but he seems to have had a single primary caregiver in infancy, and probably for the next several years, who likely provided him with at least minimal levels of stimulation and contact. An inconsistent or inadequate or abusive mother may predispose the child to relationship problems, problems in his interactions with others, but that is not the same as true RAD. I think the term RAD has come to be used somewhat loosely these days, to cover a variety of social-behavioral problems which might be due to other causal factors. True RAD is somewhat rare.

At least one passenger on the plane to Moscow, who interacted with this Russian child, described him as behaving and interacting in a fairly normal way for a 7 year old. He was not overly friendly or particularly charming toward strangers, but he was appropriately responsive when the other passenger interacted with him.

I doubt that the child has absolutely no emotional or behavioral problems, as the Russians are asserting. But I also am inclined to doubt that he is as severely disturbed as the adoptive mother has asserted. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. It is unlikely that he would have emerged completely unscathed from the kind of past treatment he has experienced, and he may lack good coping skills, and he may display emotional and behavioral problems under some conditions more than others. But he is still fairly young, and with proper therapeutic intervention, his problems can be addressed and relearning is possible.

The Russians are not only denying any problems the child might have, they are also suggesting he might have been physically abused by the adoptive mother--they pointed out scars on his body that are of recent origin. Now the child could have injured himself just playing, but I think the Russians are acting defensively, which is what you might expect.

boomerang, experienced child psychologists can use various forms of non-verbal play therapy with children whose language or English use is limited, So treatment is possible even if the therapist isn't fluent in Russian. And the child can speak some English. There may well be someone in that area of Tennessee who can speak Russian, and who can act as a translator for a therapist.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:04 pm
@boomerang,
You are bending over backward to defense people that there is no defense for and I find that somewhat strange indeed.

They did not take the boy in to be check by any I repeat any mental health expert.

Not that they could not find the best expert to treat the boy, they did not have him look at by anyone in the mental health field.

I take far far better care of my family pets then these two women did of this little boy.
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:06 pm
@firefly,
But it doesn't take full blown RAD for these issues to present themselves.

I have a kid with "attachment issues". We have done attachment therapy. At times living with him was very scary. He was incredibly cruel to me. Meaner than most people can imagine a child being. He was darling to almost everyone else ("parent shopping", the therapist called it).

Everyone thought I was nuts and making stuff up.

Just like they're doing with these women.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:06 pm
@BillRM,
I'm not defending these people at all.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:09 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Why do you persist in calling these women 'crazy'? Where is your proof?


Crazy and or immoral by their own actions of not seeking any treatment of any kind for a 7 year old they took responsibility for but instead just driving him to the airport and sending him half way around the world.

What more proof do you need but for their own actions in this matter?


That action is not crazy - you can call it immoral if you like but that is subjective, ie, your opinion. Crazy it is not. Why not try to say what you mean and mean what you say instead of throwing inappropriate words around? I get that you don't think what they did was right - a more apt word for how you feel about them might be 'heinous'.
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:11 pm
Anyway, it's obvious the boy is better off not being where he's not wanted/understood/getting help. Good luck to him in his homeland. I wonder what kind, if any, help he got at the orphanage.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:14 pm
@Mame,
Sorry but crazy it is not to seek any repeat any medical aid before placing a child on a plane to Russia due to a claimed medical problem of that child.

Those are two women not tie to the real world at all tightly.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:17 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
help he got at the orphanage.


Sorry but he already have Russian families lining up to take him in and I would bet if it was at all possible there would be American families lining up to take the child in also.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:21 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang, "attachment issues" is a vague, catch-all term, it is not the same as true RAD. For instance, children can learn to model or copy the behavior of an abusive biological parent, and then they can display this same "meanness" toward an adoptive parent, because they have identified with a previous adult aggressor. Some children have developed terrible internal rage because of past mistreatment, and then express such feelings in a new adoptive home, because they finally feel free enough to do so. Some children "test the limits"--to see how much abuse they can heap on an adoptive parent before that parent will reject them. There are many reasons a child does these things, besides true RAD. And these issues may not require specific "attachment therapy"--there are a wide variety of therapies to treat childhood disorders--a main factor is the skill and experience of the treating therapist.

Mame, what these women did was so far from the norm I do think it qualifies as bizarre or "crazy". It is also heinous.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:27 pm
@firefly,
firefly, I understand that. I've lived it. I know the difference between RAD and attachment isssues. I also know, from experience, that finding a therapist who really understand attachment issues and how to address them can make a big difference when traditional therapy doesn't fails.

My friend with the daughter adopted from Russia .... she's a psychiatrist. She can tell you the difference from understanding this clinically and living through it. She admits that she only THOUGHT she knew what she was talking about.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 01:38 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang, I appreciate the difficulty you have apparently been through with your child, and I did not mean to minimize your first-hand experience. But many children, particularly those adopted past infancy, or those who have been mistreated, or those who have lost or been separated from a parent in early childhood, all have "attachment issues". It's not a unique entity for a child psychologist to deal with.
I think the real problem is finding a highly trained, experienced child psychologist, who really understands the dynamics of the child's problem, and who has an appropriate therapeutic modality to address the problem. That can sometimes be harder to find than one might think.

Also, the children adopted from Russia can have varying degrees of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or other minimal neurological problems, which can be hard to diagnose, and which makes these children considerably more impulsive and difficult to manage and treat.

0 Replies
 
 

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