THe PC Police Again Shut Down Truth Seaking

@BillRM,

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I had work with co-workers who I had known was gay for years not in a life and death situations but in a day in and day out one. Some I like as people some I did not like but I could had care less who they screw on their free time. The only thing that did matter to me is did they know their jobs and did they do it.

That is a reasonable discription of my experiences except for the life and death situations. But in combat, if you have not bonded with someone you will be unwilling to risk your life to help them. Aggression as a unit lowers, and that means losing the fight.

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Somehow I question that it matter in the military if the man screw women or men on his R&R if he know his job and is able to do it under fire

Have you learnt nothing ? They are doing it whilst in uniform and on duty.

Do you think military members should be allowed to smoke marijuana ?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Some I like as people some I did not like but I could had care less who they screw on their free time.

The only thing that did matter to me is did they know their jobs and did they do it

the military is not a job, and free time is relative. A soldier is a soldier 24/7, his commander can order him around 24/7. My wife has been in Iraq for over six months, she has had 3 half days "off", which meant that she could sleep in and do some personal care stuff that she does not have time for when all off her days consist of 14 hours or more "at work". She was always on the FOB, and her people could come and get her at any time if she was needed.

Seriously, I am coming to the conclusion that having an intelligent discussion about the military with people who have not at least had a person close to them serve is a lost cause. You all can't seem to be able to make the jump into the way militaries are, you have no clue what it takes to create and maintain an effective military and yet you feel free to ramble on about what should be done about the gays. It is about the same as a skid row drunk standing on the street corner giving a lesson on why Citigroup is such a failure.

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@hawkeye10,

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It is about the same as a skid row drunk standing on the street corner giving a lesson on why Citigroup is such a failure.

I just KNEW they reminded me of someone but I couldnt put my finger on it..... Drunk

I wonder if your wife had to pull extra duties because some woman decided to get pregnant and go home or some homosexual male decided it was time to leave. Certainly the extra load has to be taken up somewhere.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

I wonder if your wife had to pull extra duties because some woman decided to get pregnant and go home or some homosexual male decided it was time to leave. Certainly the extra load has to be taken up somewhere.

Getting a replacement into the brigade normally takes 3-6 months, finding deployable soldiers of the right grade and MOS to send is difficult.You can see the problem of what happens when a woman turns up prego at three months into a 12 month deployment. Not quite so bad is when a female decides she does not want to deploy, and so 9 months before deployment she starts trying to get pregnant. By the time it happens there is no chance of deploying with a full roster, her replacement will come later, hopefully.

TO be fair though we have straight guys pulling the same scam, they might know that they have a career ending medical situation, but they neglect to report it till right before deployment, so that they can suck up relatively easy time in garrison before they get booted out. The last brigade lost 15% of the force total in the last three months before they deployed, mostly prego's and medicals. The command expected 5%, so they were fucked.

If the a2k'ers whining about the number of gays getting out had even a clue about the context they would know why those of use who know what we are talking about see right through them. The loses of those scamming the gay out and also of those who are booted for gaydum when they don't want to go is relatively insignificant. We would do much better than we do now at maintaining deployment strengths if we went back to the all male force. How much do you want to bet that no one wants to talk about THAT.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Why dont women want to serve in all women units ? They want to be with men. Being in the army for them is one of those ying/yang things like when they where army boots with a dress, or wear mens clothes like ties. They like the female/male contrast. They also like to be surrounded by a smorgasboard of men as the shortage of women gives their chances a boost. And if they ever get into a situation they dont like, they can get pregnant.

We had one girl in the RAAF here at recruits get pregnant and they fell over themselves to get her posted near her mum, she didnt have to do duties, she got a married quarter, it was a 9-5 job. She wrote back to a friend still at recruits and the entire recruit section of 10 girls got pregnant. men with families had to do extra to cater for having women on posted strength who could not do their share. This was discriminatory to the rights of the wives and children of those men.

In the retreat across the Kokoda by the Aust troops in PNG, WWII, they cut slits in the arse of their pants so they could expel diarrhea without taking down their pants. I cant imagine women taking that sort of treatment without demanding protection from men. That makes them a drain on the unit. Add to that the issue of sex creating a seperate rank structure and we have a disaster in the making.

The US Army is under considerable stress. That it is holding up is a tribute to organiational skills and the cadre of male soldiers. I fear the cracks that are growing since the introduction of women will cause failure unless something is done. To admit homosexuals is pathetically poor timing.

Most of the anti-homosexual sentiment I met was from women. To classify in descending order the common sentiments ; Firstly Women didnt like homo-girls (esp looking at them in the showers), secondly hetero-girls did not they think homo-men were "tolerable". Thirdly came hetero-men who didnt like homo-men. Lastly came hetero-men who didnt like homo-girls, these were the relatively few in number as men seemed to accept homo-women.

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We would do much better than we do now at maintaining deployment strengths if we went back to the all male force.

This would be my recommendation for jobs where there is a rotation through arms units...clerks, drivers, so-on.

Did you ever wonder why the contribution from countries from NATO is relatively small ? They understand the problems with women and homosexuals serving and are trying to manage it by the downsizing their deployment numbers. Except for Poland which has only 1.45 % of its defence force is women.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Well my friend please explain in simple non-military terms how in the hell once more does the fact that a few gays men and women are in a peace keeping force could be the main reason why they did not get reports done or did not do their clear duty when the time came.

By what means did the gays in the Netherlands forces cause them such problems that we need to look into??????????????

You was the one was you not who started this silly thread about the PC police and shutting done the truth seekers or speakers?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

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You was the one was you not who started this silly thread

Apparently it wasnt silly enough to keep you out.

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the PC police and shutting done the truth seekers or speakers?

And look at the reception it got. He was right.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

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Dont let facts get in the way

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You know nothing of the military, you know nothing of how this was handled before, and you know nothing of how it will be handled in the future.

You idiot. Stop telling people what they know and don't know. As I've mentioned numerous times, Bill did not make the policy. The people who did did and do know the military and how it works and mostly how it doesn't work, that it is full of bigots, a shining example is you my friend.

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We have always had homosexuals, we knew who they were, and they were accepted on a case by case basis.

There, you've taken yet another opportunity to point up your bigotry and that of the military.

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Sexual relations between members of the military destroys morale and disciplne, but we will never change this so long as the top brass have female drivers to **** when they are away from home and PCers are the bigots and hypocrites they so loudly proclaim others to be.

So you transfer blame to the gays for the conduct of the officers. Explain to me how that makes any sense.

This is exactly the reason that people like you, despite all the experience, are not put in charge of doing studies. Doing a study requires a lack of bias, the ability to think clearly, the ability to put aside those opinions garnered from the boys in the bar/locker room.

You have exhibited none of these. You have illustrated time and again that your experience is steeped in personal animosity towards gays and women. You make sweeping, irrational statements about both women and gays.

And you think you're qualified, from your experience, to be appointed to a position where the problems can be rectified.

Okay, you can dismantle your gun in a heartbeat and shine it to beat the band but you just ain't up to task in the thinking department.

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The current mess was driven by the PC bigots, and you have no creditability left. You have provided no solutions for the mess already made, you have simply denied it exists.

See what I mean.

The people who strove to ensure that the rights of "minority groups are safeguarded are to blame for taking away the "rights" of individuals to discriminate, which sometimes occasioned death, but always occasioned treating these groups as inferiors.

And you tell us that that should continue, on a "case by case" basis, and how it should be continued is to let people like you and worse determine how it should be done.

You can't be serious.

You're an absolute bundle of contradictions, Ionus. This happens when one lets the mindless meanderings of people dumber or as dumb as you form your "experience".

Let me quote your opening statement once more. You said, and I quote,

"Dont [sic] let facts get in the way".

4 Replies

When hawkeye and ionus converse with each other, their posts are very articulate. I may not agree with the points made, but these are points that at least deserve consideration.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

Have you learnt nothing ? They are doing it whilst in uniform and on duty.

"they are" are they? How many of "they" are? Did you and your buddies do this, and the other studies that constitute the sum total of your "experience" in the bar, or when you were shooting off a few rounds at the range?

Will you fill us in on the finer details of your study?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

I wonder if your wife had to pull extra duties because some woman decided to get pregnant and go home or some homosexual male decided it was time to leave. Certainly the extra load has to be taken up somewhere.

Let it all hang out. Don't even consider any attempt to hide your obvious racist and sexist personality. That's sure to get you a blue ribbon appointment to head up a study to rectify this and other related problems.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

We would do much better than we do now at maintaining deployment strengths if we went back to the all male force. How much do you want to bet that no one wants to talk about THAT.

Take it up with your political representatives. I can't imagine how, after a few minutes with folks like you, they wouldn't be won over to your rational way of thinking.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

Why dont women want to serve in all women units ? They want to be with men. Being in the army for them is one of those ying/yang things like when they where army boots with a dress, or wear mens clothes like ties. They like the female/male contrast. They also like to be surrounded by a smorgasboard of men as the shortage of women gives their chances a boost. And if they ever get into a situation they dont like, they can get pregnant.

I can just tell that this was formulated from a carefully done study.

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We had one girl in the RAAF here at recruits get pregnant

Just the type of significant sample one would want for a carefully done study.

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1. FACT: In the retreat across the Kokoda by the Aust troops in PNG, WWII, they cut slits in the arse of their pants so they could expel diarrhea without taking down their pants.

2. Unwarranted supposition: I cant imagine women taking that sort of treatment without demanding protection from men.

3. Unsubstantiated conclusion [but one that makes the grade for those who profess to have "experience"]: That makes them a drain on the unit.

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That it is holding up is a tribute to organiational skills and the cadre of male soldiers. I fear the cracks that are growing since the introduction of women will cause failure unless something is done. To admit homosexuals is pathetically poor timing.

Your expertise differs from many high ranking officers and others, veterans included that say it isn't holding up. It's a mess. Now might this be due to continued deployments, the fact that these people are serving in an illegal invasion started on a pack of lies, the fact that the "result" isn't anywhere near what was predicted, "hey man, we are being hailed as liberators. I think I'll go downtown and mix with the locals, maybe get an invite home to dinner with one of the people."

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Most of the anti-homosexual sentiment I met was from women. To classify in descending order the common sentiments ; Firstly Women didnt like homo-girls (esp looking at them in the showers), secondly hetero-girls did not they think homo-men were "tolerable". Thirdly came hetero-men who didnt like homo-men. Lastly came hetero-men who didnt like homo-girls, these were the relatively few in number as men seemed to accept homo-women.

From this brilliant study, chronicling as you have, again, the stats are something one can't argue with, you've come to the conclusion that it's the fault of women and gays for other people's bigotry.

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Did you ever wonder why the contribution from countries from NATO is relatively small ? They understand the problems with women and homosexuals serving and are trying to manage it by the downsizing their deployment numbers. Except for Poland which has only 1.45 % of its defence force is women.

Is that right? Would you consider providing something in the way of proof for your contention or are we to rely on your "experience"?

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Quote:

I may not agree with the points made, but these are points that at least deserve consideration.

What points do you think deserve a nano second of consideration in your opinion?

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

And look at the reception it got. He was right.

Well, dumb ideas do tend to get ridiculed on this site. Check out what happens when someone posts something about "water-fueled engines" or "magnet-powered generators".

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I may not agree with the points made, but these are points that at least deserve consideration.

What points do you think deserve a nano second of consideration in your opinion?

Hawkeye and ionus mentioned unpleasant aspects of military life where women or gays may add to stress. These are elements that can negatively affect troops under battle conditions where there are long periods of boredom interrupted by sudden danger. I believe those unpleasant aspects can be overcome by soldiers dedicated to their mission.

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@wandeljw,

Quote:

Hawkeye and ionus mentioned unpleasant aspects of military life where women or gays may add to stress. These are elements that can negatively affect troops under battle conditions where there are long periods of boredom interrupted by sudden danger. I believe those unpleasant aspects can be overcome by soldiers dedicated to their mission.

I agree, and the officers knowing that the deal is done politically, knowing that this is going to happen, say what they always say......"we are professionals, we follow orders, we can and will accomplish this mission".

The question has never been asked if it is reasonable for us to give them this order right now, what might suffer as a result of them needing to devote a boatload of time and energy to the social engineering project RIGHT NOW. This is irresponsible decision making in my opinion.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Quote:

These are elements that can negatively affect troops under battle conditions where there are long periods of boredom interrupted by sudden danger. I believe those unpleasant aspects can be overcome by soldiers dedicated to their mission.

And gays and women are somehow more prone to not dealing with those conditions and the studies that show it is where?

The few studies I had remember hearing about had shown women are more not less able to deal with such conditions then men.

The Russian army during WW2 used women in all manner of front line conditions far worst then anything a modern army is likely to face with great success but let not confuse bigots with facts.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

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to the social engineering project RIGHT NOW. This is irresponsible decision making in my opinion.

And if people like you had have their way we would still be keeping black soldiers out of front line outfits.

It is never a good time to cut the nonsense now is it?

What century do you think we will not have troops in harm way?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

And if people like you had have their way we would still be keeping black soldiers out of front line outfits.

It is never a good time to cut the nonsense now is it?

You have already made it clear that you don't care about the realities of implementation, you want what you want and you want it now.

Unlike you, I care about the health of the Army, about our ability to produce a win in the wars we are in.

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What century do you think we will not have troops in harm way?

believe it or not, we are not always in active combat, are not always trying to recover the force from 8+ years of war. You might consult with a history book.

1 Reply

THe PC Police Again Shut Down Truth Seaking

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