THe PC Police Again Shut Down Truth Seaking

It pointless dealing with you into the old **** can you go.

find out all the details about the witch hunts that was common for gays in the military before do not ask do not tell went into effect.

Houston Riots of 1917

like a half dozen times now....you don't comprehend because you don't want to, there is no other explanation.

From the desk of Paul Belien on Mon, 2006-09-11 20:44
Next year gay soldiers of the Dutch Army will participate officially in the national Gay Parade on 30 June in Bergen-op-Zoom. This year uniformed police officers already participated in the parade. Major Peter Kees Hamstra, president of the Stichting Homosexualiteit & Krijgsmacht (Foundation for Homosexuality & the Military), announced last Saturday that in 2007 uniformed army officers will participate too.

According to a research report of the Dutch Sociaal Cultureel Planbureau (SCP) 90% of the Dutch military accept homosexuals in the army. The Netherlands were the first country to allow gays in the army. The prohibition on gays in the military was lifted in 1974. The SCP report was commissioned by Cees van der Knaap, the Secretary of State for Defence, who wanted to ascertain the level of tolerance of gays in army combat units. According to the SCP the level of tolerance is lowest in these units. Secretary van der Knaap stated that discrimination or condescending behavior towards homosexuals will not be tolerated within the defence forces. “Each incident is one too many. Everybody must be able to work here,” the Secretary of State for Defence said.

In an interview with De Volkskrant Major Hamstra complained that tolerance of gays is not as good as is generally believed. “There is tolerance, though it is a thin layer.” “All the legal obstacles have been taken. The one thing to do now is to accomplish a culture change. And we urgently need this.”

“Homosexuality is accepted, but one is not allowed to show it,” the Major said. “To kiss your partner is not done. Neither is walking hand in hand.” He announced that in 2007 uniformed army and police officers will participate in the parade on “Pink Saturday”: “Then we will show the world that there are gays in this army.”

According to the SCP, lesbian soldiers encounter less intolerance than male homosexuals, probably because they are no threat to the “macho culture” of the army. The SCP also thinks that men object less to two women kissing than to two men.

There is a clause in Dutch Armed Forces' conditions of employment that prohibits discrimination on various grounds, including homosexuality. This said, this is still far from being a satisfactory environment for gay or lesbian soldiers. It has been habitual for young "heterosexual" recruits to the training centres to use offensive language when talking about homosexual men and women. The word "homo" has been synonymous among them with stupid, sloppy, docile, weak.
Yet, there are signs of change here too. In 1994 and 1999 research was carried out into the attitudes of military men and women towards gays and lesbians, and the results were not un-encouraging (Schabel 1999.). Approximately half of the employees surveyed said they had no difficulty in working with gay men and lesbian women.
Nonetheless, the environment is still sufficiently alienating that homosexuals in the military choose to organise on their own account. For several years now they have had their own Stichting Homoseksualiteit en Krijgsmacht (Association Homosexuality and Armed Forces). A periodical called The Bond (De Band) is published four or five times a year, with news and information concerning homosexuals and homosexuality in the Dutch Armed Forces.
Lesbians and gays in the Armed Forces used to have a regular Saturday get-together, six times a year, to discuss their situation, their problems and their experiences. Currently, they are focusing on organising people willing to help and support young gay soldiers in the barracks. There are something like 15 contact persons, in the Netherlands as a whole, to whom a gay or a lesbian soldier can turn for information, or to talk. These are self-organising activities, but the Association receives modest financial support from the military for its work.
There has also been official support activity for homosexuals. For instance, the Personnel Office of the Ministry of Defence has made a documentary film about a young officer "coming out", demonstrating the many difficulties this entails. And twice a year a three-day long seminar is organised for gay and lesbian soldiers to discuss issues of concern to them. These have ranged from "coming out" and "being gay in the workplace" to "living in another country" (for instance in case of peace-keeping missions). Such official activities are an encouraging sign of a new acceptance of homosexuality in Dutch army. For all that, among the 71.000 employees of the Dutch Armed Forces, fewer than 500 homosexual men and women have been ready to associate their names with the gay network publicly, and to actively engage in it. Compare this with a figure of 1400 subscribers to The Bond, of which 800 say they are homosexual, and it is clear that there is still a long way to go.

The Netherlands has long had a reputation of being very tolerant towards gay people. These reports seem to suggest this tolerance might not be as big as many Dutch people would like to think.
"We live in an illusion about our tolerance. We are very smug about that. We think we're very tolerant, but we do consider homosexual behavior to be something private, not openly shown. What people really want that all people, even gay people, act as straight as possible. So our tolerance is very super[-ficial]."

How do people feel about a man or a woman who is actively expressing sex in a thousand and one ways, when what is required is quite professionalism and dedication to the task

you Australians must be very odd....American soldiers talk about sex constantly.... who they banged, how they banged, who they are going to bang next, what made her a particularly luscious piece of ass......

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I imagine they actually talked to members of the IDF, gay and straight, and asked them questions about their experiences in the service.

I talked to many serving homosexuals and women. I watched this through 24 years.

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Which, I'll hasten to add, is a good deal more research on the subject than you've ever conducted.

Your assumptions are wrong. A typically stupid statement from ignorance. You came to this conclusion based on my disagreeing with you and your presumption of being 100% correct in your preconceived ideas.

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And how did you measure "unit cohesion" among troops with gay and straight soldiers fighting in the same unit?

I take it by your answer that you have admitted they did not measure combat effectiveness. Thats all you had to say, as hard as it is to admit being wrong.

This shows your lack of ability to understand the real issue. The real issue is sex affecting combat effectiveness by breaking down unit cohesion. It is the same issue. So perhaps if I rephrase the question : why wont homosexuals serve in their own units ?

So let me get this "straight" Ionus is an Australian so would have zero knowledge of the screening for homosexuals done in the US military and yet he have the nerve to call both myself and I assume my father liars for telling of the normal procedures face by new recruits during WW2!!!!!!!

you Australians must be very odd....American soldiers talk about sex constantly.... who they banged, how they banged, who they are going to bang next, what made her a particularly luscious piece of ass......

Or, in other words, all of your evidence is anecdotal.

No, I came to that conclusion because all of the evidence that you cited in support of your position was purely anecdotal, as you have now confirmed.

And I take it from your answer that you didn't understand my question. You insist that the other side provide evidence to support its position that gays in the military do not affect combat effectiveness, but somehow you are exempt from providing evidence for your contention that gays affect "unit cohesion."

You have failed to provide even one scintilla of evidence (apart from your own experiences and biases) in support of your position

hell, you haven't even explained what "unit cohesion" means.

Because they shouldn't have to serve in their own units.

You have missed the point. That type of sexual referencing has them all on the same side. It helps bonding.

I have known many who I knew were gay or later found out were gay, but they always tried to act straight.

And I have known many Christians who pretended to go along with the whole "we are sex machines and users" line of jokes and comments

... the one from Britain and one from Oz were very forward in coming on, one going so far as to touch me inappropriately.