4
   

NYC to Search for Sept. 11 Victim Remains

 
 
djjd62
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12:37 pm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/28/national/main6341282.shtml

NYC to Search for Sept. 11 Victim Remains
Three-Month Search Will Look at Ground Zero Material Found Over the Last Two Years

(CBS/AP) New York City officials are planning to search through material excavated from around the World Trade Center site for any remains of Sept. 11 victims.

The three-month endeavor is scheduled to start Friday at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island. The material being searched was taken from the area around ground zero in the last two years.

If there are any possible remains found, the material will undergo testing at the city medical examiner's office.

Meanwhile, World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein and government agencies that control the trade center site have reached a deal to resolve a 16-month stalemate over rebuilding at ground zero, reports WCBS in New York.

The agreement will allow four office towers to be built, although one will be delayed indefinitely because of the poor economy.

The arrangement was announced by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey following a board meeting on March 25.

Construction is under way on 1 World Trade Center, a memorial and a transit hub, but other planned towers have been stalled in a financing dispute.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. David Paterson had planned a late afternoon news conference to discuss the deal.

In 1980, Silverstein won a bid from the Port Authority to construct 7 World Trade Center, to the north of the World Trade Center. Silverstein was interested in acquiring the entire World Trade Center complex, and put in a bid when the Port Authority put it up for lease in 2000. Silverstein won the bid when a deal between the initial winner and the Port Authority fell through, and he signed the lease on July 24, 2001, only weeks before the towers were destroyed in the September 11 attacks, reports reports WCBS in New York.

The search is expected to cost $1.4 million.
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12:41 pm
wouldn't it be a fitting tribute to the victims if there was a thriving enterprise of some sort on the site almost ten years after the attacks, i'm stunned it isn't done by now
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12:44 pm
@djjd62,
I don't mean to be insensitive but this continuing Herculean and useless search for remains of individuals who we already know are dead is fruitless and a sheer waste of money. All it is is political ribbons and bows covering someone's profiteering of the pain and suffering of others.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12:45 pm
@tsarstepan,
couldn't agree more
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:01 pm
Still, there is something to be said about being able to have some kind of remains of your loved one to bury or whatever . . .

To just have your loved one just "evaporate into thin air" would be unsettling. This might give some closure to some of the families.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:14 pm
@sullyfish6,
At what cost though? The families of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 (the disaster over Lockerbie, Scotland) did not get the same treatment. Countless of millions of dollars aren't being spent on finding their remains.

Even when some of the remains are discovered, closure will not be possible due to the violent nature of the crime. I can state the impossibility of finding the entire remains of an individual lost on that day. And will finding 10% of an individual's remains bring closure? 20%? 50%? Or even 100% of the remains bring the end of the families' suffering? It seems to me a lost and wasteful cause. These funds can be put to better use and should be as well.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 02:29 pm
@tsarstepan,
Like the Arizona , at Pearl Harbor, the actual remains that were found at Ground Zero, were removed within clemoval of detritus that would interfere with the building(It woulda have to be done anyway), so sifting through the stuff is a small effort after the removal of the matrix has been done. At Pearl, we didnt have the advanced forensic tools we have today yet they were able to recover and additional 105 bodies of the 900 or so that were sealed within the ship. When removal of guns, ammo, superstructure, and secret materials were accomplished , the searching for further bodies was considered infeasibkle AT THAT TIME, and there were several "burial at sea ceremonies".

Unfoirtunately we live in a time that requires us to take all due humane care to ensure that remains are avaliable to loved ones. To not do it would appear somewhat callous. I think that well probably find some bone remains of a few persons who will beidentified by DNA. Even though its 10 years later and many victims relatives have moved on, I think we do owe them that last look before we seal the area up in concrete.

When I bought my house it had a dirt basement which we had concreted, only after an archeologist friend from Princeton and I did a survey using magnetics and EM and test digs.

(We found several boxes full of stuff, including some really incredible thibgs.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 03:08 pm
@farmerman,
I'm assuming you didn't find any pirates gold in your basement?? Wink
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 03:41 pm
@tsarstepan,
not pirate
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 03:58 pm
One would wonder if this sense of humane compassion might extend to the 200,000 Vietnamese, the large number of Cambodians and Laotians, obliterated by US carpet bombing, to those who still suffer from the chemical weapon agent orange, sprayed over 30% of Vietnam, to the tens of thousands of men, women and children who were tortured and murdered in Nicaragua, to the children playing in the depleted uranium spread around Middle East countries, to those maimed and killed by the cluster bombs, to the ...
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 06:49 pm
@JTT,
US and France are two countries heavily involved in UXO detection from areas in SE Asia and even in WWII sites.
As far as the rest of your comparison, what is yer point? Is this your way of saying that we shouldnt take the material scraped from Ground Zero and do a final forensics exam?

I dont recall the Czar asking to start a poll but Im in favor of the forensics.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 07:15 pm
@farmerman,
That's mighty big of them, FM, considering that those two countries are responsible for the whole mess and more that followed. Might this be an altruistic venture?

I'm saying that there's way way too much whining that goes on from the US side about how important it is to find the remains of loved ones considering that there is little to no concern about the loved ones of the "others" who got in the way of US "national security".

It's not forensics. It's nationalistic grandstanding.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 07:19 pm
@JTT,
Then, Im glad that this thread has given you a chance to vent in your lovable style.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 09:53 pm
@farmerman,
Nice evasion, FM.

They want to spend $1.5 million to look for a few bones while,

Quote:
"The Vietnamese government estimates that 3 million of its citizens still suffer health effects due to Agent Orange spraying."

"The use of Agent Orange still has an effect on the citizens of Vietnam, poisoning their food chain and creating concern about its effect on human beings. This chemical has been reported to cause serious skin diseases as well as a vast variety of cancers in the lungs, larynx, and prostate.

Children in the areas where Agent Orange was used have been affected and have multiple health problems including cleft palate, mental disabilities, hernias, and extra fingers and toes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange


I could go on with a list of other atrocities but you would just come up with some facile statement that would allow you to go on worrying about the big issues.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:04 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Like the Arizona , at Pearl Harbor, the actual remains that were found at Ground Zero, were removed within clemoval of detritus that would interfere with the building(It woulda have to be done anyway), so sifting through the stuff is a small effort after the removal of the matrix has been done. At Pearl, we didnt have the advanced forensic tools we have today yet they were able to recover and additional 105 bodies of the 900 or so that were sealed within the ship. When removal of guns, ammo, superstructure, and secret materials were accomplished , the searching for further bodies was considered infeasibkle AT THAT TIME, and there were several "burial at sea ceremonies".

Unfoirtunately we live in a time that requires us to take all due humane care to ensure that remains are avaliable to loved ones. To not do it would appear somewhat callous. I think that well probably find some bone remains of a few persons who will beidentified by DNA. Even though its 10 years later and many victims relatives have moved on, I think we do owe them that last look before we seal the area up in concrete.

When I bought my house it had a dirt basement which we had concreted, only after an archeologist friend from Princeton and I did a survey using magnetics and EM and test digs.

(We found several boxes full of stuff, including some really incredible thibgs.
Will u reveal what u found ?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:10 pm

As an American citizen, I deem it shameful,
to fail to re-build the World Trade Center, restoring the status quo ante.

Failure to do so, de facto honors the wishes of the Moslems who destroyed it
and it acknowledges their ability to dictate to us whether we can have tall buildings in NY or not.

In effect, it says to the Moslems: "OK, u r the boss."
That is not cool; it is cowardly.





David
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:05 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I think it has less to do with terror and more to do with economics. The WTC, when it was just finished and for afew years, was reviled by a significant minority. Others just had no real opinions. Im saddened that the design they chose is actually a "camel". All these dynamic and edge cutting buildings throughout the world, and all we can offer is a hohum design that could have been really neat if the original design wasnt fucked with. New York is mostly a collection of tired old buildings, some are neat from a historic sense, but the overall city-scape design is like a mideaval village. If it werent for Central Park, NY would be like Moscow.
(This is only my opinion )
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:40 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Will u reveal what u found ?

I didnt think that anyone would be interested so I didnt wanna bust a thread, if people are interested , sure Im not keeping any secrets, bt I have to tell ya , one item was very creepy
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:50 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I think it has less to do with terror and more to do with economics.
The WTC, when it was just finished and for afew years,
was reviled by a significant minority.
Yeah; I don 't think the Moslems liked it.


farmerman wrote:
Others just had no real opinions.
Im saddened that the design they chose is actually a "camel".
How does it relate to camels?


farmerman wrote:
All these dynamic and edge cutting buildings throughout the world, and all we can offer is a hohum design that could have been really neat if the original design wasnt fucked with. New York is mostly a collection of tired old buildings, some are neat from a historic sense, but the overall city-scape design is like a mideaval village. If it werent for Central Park, NY would be like Moscow.
(This is only my opinion )
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
How does it relate to camels?
Yoouve never heard the saying that "A CAMEL IS A HORSE DESIGNED BY A COMMITTEE"?
 

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