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Mindgames: Is he or isn't he

 
 
Mislead
 
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 09:44 pm
Hi, I am new to the site and have a question and I would appreciate some advice from some a2kers. A man that I was involved with for the last 2 years is trying to convince me (after a year of lying and cheating and some text book NPD manipulative behaviours) that he is ready to change. My dilema is that I just don't believe him and do not think that he is capable of honesty and fidelity over the long term. I doubt his sincerity and feel that he using his arsenal of manipulative tactics to avoid any accountability or responsibility for his destructive way of relating.

He sent me a text this morning saying
"I know I don't have any credibility with you so you don't believe anything no matter what I say"

to which I responded
"Well done. You just blamed me while obscuring your role in the creation of the problem."

to which he responded
"Sorry, let me rephrase. I don't blame you if you don't believe anything I say. I have lost credibility with you."

I did not respond as this is basically the truth. He just sent another text saying
"Is that better?"

I am not sure whether he is being patronizing, belittling or if he is trying to open up communication. I am wary because is charming and intelligent and i usually walk away whenever we have tried to discuss an issue feeling confused and that nothing ever gets resolved or even delved into with any satisfaction. He is adept in the school of countering, diverting and minimizing. My head just spins.

Any words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated. I am deciding whether to run and not look back or give him another chance but not without educating myself in how to seek that change that is necessary if he is serious.

 
View best answer, chosen by Mislead
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 09:48 pm
@Mislead,
It sounds like you're pretty well-versed in his shenanigans. The question is: Is life too short to spend jousting with someone you don't trust.?

You'll have to decide....and welcome to A2K
Mislead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 09:56 pm
@panzade,
Thank you for the welcome panzade. That's a very good point. Jousting is exactly how it feels.

He claims that I don't know what he is capable of and that he can indeed change. I wonder if it is truly possible.
gustavratzenhofer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 10:30 pm
Change is difficult. I would wager he stays the same with the exception of improved subterfuge. That is change, perhaps, but not the type you seek, I am sure.
Mislead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 10:55 pm
@gustavratzenhofer,
I dare say you are right gus. I just fail to comprehend why he would bother. He has no trouble in meeting other women so why not just move on and leave me to get on with my own life? I have told him that I am doing just that, but he has stepped up his campaign as he says he does not want to lose me.

What about the text "is that better?" How does that read to anyone reading this post?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 11:08 pm
@Mislead,
Quote:
He claims that I don't know what he is capable of and that he can indeed change. I wonder if it is truly possible.


Is he NPD, or is he a sociopath? You can be a sociopath and display NPD. People very rarely change, and they certainly don't do it for other people - the only true change comes from within. People however, do grow - constantly.

To my way of thinking, it appears your man is just refining his manipulation processes - which involves refining the appearance of change - rather than actually seeking to change.

The 'is that better' comment is neither here nor there. It could mean 'sorry about the poor phrasing' or it could be patronising, or any number of other things.

Personally, people NEVER change overnight - it's a long drawn out process. The real question is - do you want to put up with this for a few years, while he says he is changing, but never being able to tell if he is or not (due to his ability to manipulate)...because if you stay because he says he will change...that is the only option... constant uncertainty with no real way to know if he's changed.

Show respect and love for yourself - Move on. Leave him well behind.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 11:10 pm
@Mislead,
you are a challange, he wants to prove to himself that he can get you. If he does, he will discard you, likely being mean to you before he does.

You can send him packing now, or maybe you want to toy with him for awhile for kicks, just don't be ignorant about what this game is. That is how you get hurt.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 12:17 am
@Mislead,
Quote:
What about the text "is that better?" How does that read to anyone reading this post?

'Have I done a better job saying what I know you want me to say and what I know I was supposed to say, (but don't really care about or feel) than I did in the text immediately before this one?'

It is a game. If you're tired of playing it, don't play anymore. If you choose to keep playing, just try to remind yourself why you ever thought it was fun when you finally get tired of it.

I had a friend who sounds just like this. Luckily it never progressed to romance though I was tempted sometimes as he was charming, intelligent and could be very, very funny. Hawkeye's right. These people are enticed by challenges. He looked at me in obvious surprise one time after about the third time we'd talked and said, 'You're different....you're a CHALLENGE' and looking back now, I could see that for him - the game was on.

I played for about two years, but you know what - he turned out not to be as interesting as I first thought. His manipulations were so transparent, it felt wrong to keep playing . Now I just listen and nod. Pretty soon I won't even be interested enough to do that.

dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 12:26 am
anon anon anon
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 01:57 am
@Mislead,
Quote:
What about the text "is that better?" How does that read to anyone reading this post?


He's telling you what he knows you want to hear. And then he's looking for a pat on the back for saying it.

You are never going to trust this man again. He gave you at least a year's worth of reasons not to trust him--that's a big chunk of a two year relationship. He blew his chance at a relationship with you because he let you know he can't be trusted.

No one suddenly changes their character or personality traits overnight. There are no magic wands to make that happen. He may well want to remain in a relationship with you, he might even convince himself he can change, but irreparable damage has already been done to the relationship. Is there any way he can really prove to you that he's now trustworthy and will remain trustworthy? Can you really forget all that you know about him?

He's abused you emotionally. If he really could change, he'd be aware of how destructive he's been, how much it hurt you, and why it's impossible to build a relationship on that kind of foundation. He wouldn't try to hold onto you, he'd apologize and understand why you had to move on and away from him. He'd finally show some true respect for you and your feelings.

This relationship won't offer you any sense of security, it can't. Why would you want to give him another chance? What would you hope to gain?

Other than saying he's charming and intelligent, you haven't said anything positive about this man or your relationship with him. Is there anything overwhelmingly terrific going on between the two of you that makes it hard for you to give him up?
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 05:50 am
@Mislead,
Mislead wrote:

I dare say you are right gus. I just fail to comprehend why he would bother.


Because you have allowed it before. So he is stumped as to why its not allowed now.
He knows how to lie to you and get away with it. You are familiar.

Thats why
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 05:51 am
@Mislead,
Mislead wrote:


What about the text "is that better?" How does that read to anyone reading this post?

that is a challange, a manipulation and a way to make YOU the bad party in this. If he can turn it to where YOU are supposedly not understanding him, he scores points so to speak and can then be in a place of right when he is not. No matter how he will get to that point, that is the goal.

sounds like he is winning. You are questioning yourself.
Dont do it Smile
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 07:17 am
@Mislead,
Quote:
My dilema is that I just don't believe him and do not think that he is capable of honesty and fidelity over the long term. I doubt his sincerity and feel that he using his arsenal of manipulative tactics to avoid any accountability or responsibility for his destructive way of relating.


You answered your own question. Dump the s.o.b. before he has you tied up in knots!

Oh, BTW, welcome to A2K!
Very Happy
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 09:07 am
Trust is a huge factor in any relationship. Once that's out the window there
is hardly anything left except self destruction, since you'll always wonder if....
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 09:13 am
@Mislead,
change is not something that you talk about.

it is something that you do.

words are cheap. misleading even.

good luck.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 10:07 am
So, you don't believe him and dont' think that he is capable of honesty and fidelity over the long term. You doubt his sincerity and feel that he using his arsenal of manipulative tactics to avoid any accountability or responsibility for his destructive way of relating.

And yet, you're willing to forgo this better judgemen of yours to give him another chance.

You're caught between reason and emotion. You're probably in love with the guy, right?

Chances are you're going to toss your better judgement and reason, and follow your heart and emotions.

All you can do is ride out what follows.

I wish you luck in, and wisdom from, your decision.
0 Replies
 
Meminger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 01:29 pm
@Mislead,
Years of lying and cheating? He is a sociopath and dangerous. Read The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout and run as far as you can get from him!
mm25075
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:02 pm
@Meminger,
Yes, he is using mind games to keep you confused and not accept responsibility for his own emotions.

It took me 12 years to realize verbal abuse was happening. Look at the red flags that are there in front of you and run don't walk away.

Look toward your future without this guy in it.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 02:31 pm
@mm25075,
He seems to me, from here, to be "a piece of work" - a description that can match people of both sexes. Why you would want to continue the relationship is hard for me to see, but you may find his good attributes winning in some way. I think, as panzade said earlier in the thread, that life is too short - for this probable trail of woe.
0 Replies
 
Mislead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 02:09 am
@vikorr,
I am not sure if he is NPD or a sociopath. They are very similar aren't they?

To my way of thinking, change is a part of growth or one aspect of it. What do you consider the difference between change and growth?

I know what you are saying is true. Thanks.



 

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