7
   

No respect for democracy?

 
 
Cyracuz
 
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 11:03 am
I see in the news that several of the politicians who voted for the health reform in the US have recieved threats to their lives and those of their children.

From what I understand this comes from those who don't need the reform and have to pay more for it and from people who are angry over abortion issues.
These people have no respect for democracy.
I heard someone on tv say that they felt like they were being punished for being succesful. Is this attitude of selfishness common in the US? Do they think it is wrong that millions of people will get much better taken care of?
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 11:10 am
@Cyracuz,
It's a little more complicated than that, Cyracuz. There was so much misinformation and dysinformation circulated about the health care measure that many people who oppose it honestly don't understand what exactly they're opposing and why. It's more than just greed; it's abysmal ignorance.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:03 pm
@Merry Andrew,
I see. If people don't know what is actually happening I can understand they might get angry. But death threats against the children of politicians?
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:11 pm
For some, yeah it's disrespect and greed. For others, it's ignorance. This whole thing has been filled with rumor after rumor and of course, no one bothers to verify anything before spreading it like wildfire.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:49 pm
@Cyracuz,
The death threats are the latest. The other day, racial slurs were hurled at a black member of congress, and another member of congress was taunted because he is gay. In some places, rocks were thrown through windows at Democratic headquarters. This is mob mentality, very ugly mob mentality. And it is coming from people, like some of the Tea Party groups, who consider themselves patriots and defenders of basic American values. I guess that respect for democracy isn't among those values. Neither is basic civility.

This sort of hostility, with an undercurrent of threat and menace, has been going on at least since the presidential campaign. The Republican party does nothing to put a stop to it, or even to loudly decry it, for fear of offending their base. Yet these are the tactics of the Republican right-wing groups, including some in the Tea Party movement. The Republicans let them continue these tactics because they hope the anger will energize others against the Democrats.

Not only should we start holding the Republican party accountable for foul and bigoted and menacing behaviors and actions, we must demand they speak out, loud and clear, and put a stop to them. They are stoking fear and hatred and creating a dangerous climate for our country and our elected officials. Democracy is alive and well, and bullying, humiliating, and threatening members of congress won't change that. But the Republicans better step up to the plate and remind their lunatic fringe of that fact, because what's been going on lately is appalling and more than a little frightening.

0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:10 pm
The republicans have been useing this fear mongering for the last 30 years. It seems to work for them. When they gain complete control of the government i am sure they will trot out thier Hitler who will convince the idiot citizens he will save their world. Thank God i will probably be dead by than.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:39 pm
@rabel22,
So far about 10 members of Congress have received threats and requested additional security.


Quote:
The backlash: Reform turns personal
By: Jake Sherman and Marin Cogan
March 24, 2010 04:51 AM EDT

Reps. Louise Slaughter and Bart Stupak have received death threats.

A tea party participant published what he thought was Rep. Thomas Perriello’s home address and urged disgruntled voters to “drop by” for a “good face-to-face chat.”

Vandals broke windows at Slaughter’s office in New York and Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’s office in Arizona.

And angry voters are planning to protest this weekend at the home of Steve Driehaus " who’s already seen a photograph of his children used in a newspaper ad published by reform opponents.

The vitriolic health care debate has become personal " too personal, say House Democrats who voted for the bill and now find not just themselves but their families in the cross hairs of opponents.

Slaughter, a Democrat who chairs the House Rules Committee, said a caller to her office last week vowed to send snipers to “kill the children of the members who voted yes.” Her office reported the call to police, who were dispatched to provide protection for Slaughter’s grandchildren. She has also been in touch with the FBI and U.S. Postal Service inspectors, who intercepted a letter en route to her home in upstate New York.

Stupak, the Michigan Democrat whose last-minute compromise on abortion guaranteed passage of the bill Sunday, said callers have left messages for him saying, “You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you.”

“My wife still can’t answer the phone,” Stupak told POLITICO on Tuesday. The messages are “full of obscenities if she leaves it plugged in. In my office, we can’t get a phone out. It’s just bombarded.”

Stupak, a former police officer, said he’s not fazed by the threats or by the prospect of protests at his district office this weekend. “I’ve looked down barrels of guns,” he said. “I’ve talked my way out of it.”

But Democrats said their political opponents go too far when they bring members’ families into the fray.

Driehaus, a Democrat from Ohio, was outraged last week when a group called the Committee to Rethink Reform used a photo of him and his two young daughters in a newspaper ad urging him to vote against any health care reform bill that included federal funding for abortion. Both the group and the newspaper " the Cincinnati Enquirer " apologized for including Driehaus’s daughters in the ad.

“I’m very protective of my family, like most of us,” Driehaus said Tuesday. “There is no reason for my wife and kids to be brought into any of this. If people want to talk to me, if people want to approach me about an issue, I’m more than happy to talk about the issue, regardless of what side they’re on. But I do believe when you bring in a member’s family, that you’ve gone way too far.”

Driehaus faults Republicans for providing encouragement to the most extreme opponents of reform. Last week, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) warned that anti-abortion Democrats would suffer politically if they voted for the health care bill; he singled out Driehaus, saying he “may be a dead man” and “can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati” because “the Catholics will run him out of town.”

“Mr. Boehner made comments about me and my predicament when I go home which I felt were wildly out of bounds for his position and very irresponsible, quite frankly. He’s from next door. That’s not helpful. That’s irresponsible,” Driehaus said.


Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said, “The leader does not condone violence, and his remark was obviously not meant to be taken literally. He is urging Americans to take the anger they’re feeling and focus it on building a new majority that will listen to the people.”

No one condones death threats against members or their families, but not everyone is apologetic about taking complaints about health care reform straight to the homes of members.

Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted what he believed to be Perriello’s home address on his blog this week, sarcastically urging other tea partiers to stop by and “say hi and express their thanks regarding his vote for health care.”

The address turned out to be the home of Perriello’s brother " who has four children " but Troxel told POLITICO he didn’t intend to remove it from his blog. “If they would like to provide me with the address of Tom, then I’d be more than happy to take it down,” he said. “I have no reason to believe it’s not his house.”

A fellow tea party blogger said he thought it was fine for Troxel to post Perriello’s home address. “They have our home addresses,” said Kurt Feigel, who complained that protesters had little choice but to go to Perriello’s home because Perriello’s office doesn’t “respond to e-mail; they don’t respond to letters; they don’t respond to us showing up at his office. So what am I going to do?”

Perriello said his family doesn’t want him to be afraid. But when asked if he was scared anyway, the Virginia Democrat replied: “Whatever.”

“I’ve lived in Sierra Leone for two years, where the life expectancy is 34 years old. If the worst thing that happens is that special-interest groups spend millions of dollars against me and my most ardent opponents organize against me, it’s hardly a ‘cry me a river’ moment " as long as people act civil and within the law.”

Others are less sanguine.

C.J. Karamargin, a spokesman for Giffords, said staffers in the Democrat’s district office were “a little bit shaken” Monday when they arrived at work to find the glass front door shattered and covered in plywood.

Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-N.D.) said he had to change his personal cell phone number after a Republican gave it out to health care opponents.

And Rep. Dennis Cardoza, a Blue Dog Democrat from California, said he’s gotten physical threats over health care reform.

“There are some folks that identified themselves as being members of the tea party [who] called, [and] my staff has gotten to know their names over time, and they have been very loud and very ugly,” Cardoza said.

With the House vote behind them, Democrats hope to show voters that health care reform won’t wreak the devastation opponents predict " and that tempers will cool as a result.

Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger (D-Md.) said he’s already getting 95 percent fewer calls since Sunday’s vote.
“The real problem is the people who are calling and talking about a revolution and overthrowing government,” he said. “They can be angry. We’re all for that. But when they talk about taking over the government, the leadership has to do its part to stop that.”

Andy Barr contributed to this report.
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=8DB34C71-18FE-70B2-A820DB90C45EC159

0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 02:45 pm
This is rather subtle...
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/4459889449_700d156b09_o.jpg
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 03:22 pm
@Cyracuz,
I have to agree with the title.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 05:35 pm
@ebrown p,
That's scary as ****.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 05:38 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Why?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 05:42 pm
Even Republican congressional leaders are getting into the act. John Boehner, the House Minority Leader made this rather ominous statement:

Quote:
Take [Rep.] Steve Driehaus, for example ... He may be a dead man. He can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati."


I felt at least as passionate against the Patriot Act, the use of torture and the Iraq war... as people seem to feel against giving people health insurance. I never spoke (even in jest) of assassinating a political leader. I certainly never threw bricks through windows, threatened children or cut propane lines.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 05:47 pm
throwing bricks through windows could be dangerous, might get cut by flying glass and you could blow yourself up cutting a gas line, now threatening children, i could do that, i'm pretty sure i could beat up most kids, well, we'll say 5 years old or under just to be safe

so if the republicans want any preschoolers roughed up, give me a call
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 06:57 pm
@ebrown p,
John Boehner is one of the biggest scumbags out there. I watched that asshole during the health care "summit" and throughout the last few weeks of wrangling. He's a wind-up GOP robot who never gets tired of trotting out the bullshit talking points no matter how many times they've been proven to be a horseshit lie. He's one of the ones that should be voted out as soon as possible, along with that DeMint jerkoff and that phony know-nothing, Mitch McConnell. VOTE THEM OUT!
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 07:02 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Why?


The level of stupidity among a certain segment of the public never fails to both surprise me and scare the **** out of me.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 08:39 pm
I wonder where Finn d'Abuzz might be? Maybe he's started his own thread.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 09:11 pm
My initial reaction to this was also a strange mix of incredulity and fear. I didn't hear any threats of assasins when the patriot act was introduced. I have a hard time understanding the mindset of someone who will willingly give up freedom but who can be provoked to cause a riot over money.
To me, even the possibility that I might be arrested and held indefinetly without charge or trial is way more oppressive than any tax.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 04:33 pm
@Cyracuz,
Did I make an inappropriate comparison? Sorry if I did. I am working with limited information. I don't think any amount of information wired across the sea can convey the sense of reality on this issue anyone in the US are probably feeling. But I am left with questions... Are these threats made by individuals without any connection to any social structure, or are they set forth by real powers in the social network?

USA is a major factor in the future development of the world as a global community. I just think it is importan to know other people's values...
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 05:50 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz, they don't yet know the identity of the people making the threats.

But the Republican party has become increasingly dominated by the extreme right wing groups in it's base. This element is fueled by anger at government in general, and appears to be vowing a vendetta against the Obama administration, which is seen as the embodiment of big government and encroaching socialism. Rallies whip such crowds into a frenzy, and the rhetoric and imagery of speakers and participants often has violent and aggressive overtones. Right wing talk radio hosts continue to fan the flames of rage all day on the airwaves. Most recently, because of the passage of the health care legislation, the leaders of the Republican party have joined this extreme form of expression:
Quote:
What has been really striking has been the eliminationist rhetoric of the G.O.P., coming not from some radical fringe but from the party’s leaders. John Boehner, the House minority leader, declared that the passage of health reform was “Armageddon.” The Republican National Committee put out a fund-raising appeal that included a picture of Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, surrounded by flames, while the committee’s chairman declared that it was time to put Ms. Pelosi on “the firing line.” And Sarah Palin put out a map literally putting Democratic lawmakers in the cross hairs of a rifle sight.

All of this goes far beyond politics as usual. Democrats had a lot of harsh things to say about former President George W. Bush " but you’ll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/opinion/26krugman.html?src=me&ref=general


While the majority of people listening to, or spouting, this sort of aggressive and inflammatory rhetoric have no intention of acting on it, this type of toxic atmosphere is bound to instigate some sort of actual violence from people who have difficulty keeping their emotions and impulses in check. While most of the current threats and acts of vandalism appear to have come from the extreme right wingers, at least one also appears to have come from the left. When you start stirring up rage, you really don't know who, or what, you might provoke, which is why it has been downright irresponsible for the leaders of the Republican party to join this form of extreme expression when they really should be trying to put a lid on it.

To the extent that the Republican leadership, and Republican members of Congress participate in this menacing and threatening speech, Cyracuz, I think one could say that the threats are "set forth by real powers in the social network".
And the title of this thread is very appropriate, Cyracuz, these people are showing no respect for democracy.



Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 10:54 am
@firefly,
Thanks for that information, firefly.

Who are the people that the republicans represent? I am guessing that the republican party is more to the right than to the left? I am guessing that a lot of the people who would vote republicans, trusting them to look after their financial interests, are really disappointed by their representatives.
Maybe the inappropriate rethorics put forth in the wake of this is an attempt to re-establish a kind of trust that may have been compromised by presenting outrage as a common cause. Perhaps they don't have the arguments to appeal to people's common sense and thus have to resort to appealing to them on an emotional level. It is dangerous, and elected goverment officials that stand up and use rethoric with this type of radical and extrimist imagery are in a way sanctioning their voters' angry impulses.
 

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