Trolls, or trolling behaviour ...how do we deal with these isues as an online community?

@saab,

Quote:

If it is so, I would say these kind of people excists in every nation, more in some than in others.

Intellectually I know you are correct saab however my location I suspect limits my exposure to different cultures. I post about my personal experience.

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@saab,

No experience with Danes, but otherwise your observations are similar to my own - which are largely limited to internet experience.

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@OmSigDAVID,

i use microsoft Paint...

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@Region Philbis,

Region Philbis wrote:

i use microsoft Paint...

Thank u.

David

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@dadpad,

I have less experience on internet with behavior than I have in real life with different nations. I have an English sister-in-law. She is rather introverted but an extreemly good observer and can write letters which are pages long about things and people she observes - so my interest in England has increased a lot over the years.
My family is part Danish part Swedish and I have Norwegian relatives.
I myself have lived in five different countries, where I could speak the language and read the newspapers.

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@saab,

Dadpad said

Quote:

Hawkeye
i believe there may also be a cultural divide here as well. Your point about putting a point agressivly or forcefully can be percieved as being abrasive. I have encountered this in person from Americans I know. Although I do not have a great deal of experience with other cultures It has been my experience that Americans can be extreemly abrasive with their views and refuse to accept that there can be another point of view

.

This can be true, but varies even within America. If you live in New York or the surrounding metropolitan or tri-state area (NY, New Jersey, Connecticut) the way you communicate is, by definition and requirement, different from if you live down south or in the midwest. It's direct, straight to the point and succinct. It might seem rude and abrasive even to other Americans in it's directness. But it's just that you're in a hurry- there's always lots of people wanting the same thing - it's just a rhythmn. If you want to say something - you better speak up and lay it on the line. If you're from there, you understand that and don't get offended by it as others who come from other places might.

Maybe that's why David and I just find it easy to let what other considers trolling roll on by. He ignores it - I laugh at it more often than not. I figure it's an expression of personality or individuality, eccentricity, even insecurity -whatever. I believe in allowing people to be who they are - I enjoy it. I don't like trying to have people form orderly little lines and file through as I see fit. This is supposed to be interesting and fun- and it's not like we're trying to cure cancer or anything. Anyway, a lot of time it's more interesting to me to watch the differences in personality and communication-I wouldn't want that stifled.
The only thing that bothers me is when someone is out and out cruel to someone else. And sometimes THAT is disguised in the most polite and proper words that could possibly be written.

I have noticed a cultural difference in terms of differences in peoples' ability to listen carefully by nationality. British people are, in general, better listeners than Americans. I've become a better listener since I've lived in England. The rhythm of communication here encourages listening while the rhythm of communication in the US doesn't as much.
Maybe that's why some people from the US seem so set on their own views - they don't know how to stop and listen to other views fully enough to give them the thought they deserve.
And the US, being more of an individualistic, capitalistic society has a more competitive air or edge to it. That probably comes through in communication styles too.

But you know - DAVID used to be considered a troll. These posters we call 'trolls' are real people.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

I'd like to add a bit of clarification to my post from earlier in the day, if that's OK.

Its OK; its your own thread.

msolga wrote:

In an analogy between school bullies & cyber bullies, I said:

Quote:
Possibly a life-long work habit of interacting with bullies in such ways
has influenced how I interact with people in general?
(Actually I do believe that most people have redeeming qualities.)
So perhaps that's how come I find myself interacting with trolls
(in my "lovely" way ) when some sort of reasoned interaction is actually possible?

In my own experience with this, I can only remember encountering ONE bully
during my lifetime; it was before I became a lawyer, working for the NY Stock Exchange.
One of my co-workers had an overbearing personality and he mouthed off too much.
The only way I found to deal with that was to counter-mouth off in return;
i.e., show a refusal to tolerate domination. I recommend that to everyone,
tho preferably, avoid the offender, if that is convenient.

I say that knowing that some folks have (inaccurately) accused ME
of being guilty of the misconduct in question.

I find it of some co-incidental interest that while we were on that job,
a statute was enacted requiring that we all be fingerprinted; too much theft of stock.
The bully was fingerprinted b4 I was. I made a little joke about his fingerprints:
"definitely the criminal type." He took umbrage.

I left the job to attend law school. Within a few weeks of my departure,
I saw him on the evening news on TV. He was dragged away in chains,
having organized a gang to plunder the vault on-the-job and sell the stolen stock.
It turned out that I was correct: his prints really WERE the criminal type.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

And I wanted to add that David, though an American and an American from New York at that - someone who has very strong views - is an EXCELLENT listener. That's one of the first things I noticed about him on a2k and in real life.

So no ' theories' about anyone - should ever be considered to be set in stone (in my opinion).

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@aidan,

Thank u, Rebecca.

David

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I think the cultural stereotypes here based on nationality are simply wrong. I have known only a few Australians in person. Some were abrasive, some were not, and one i knew was positively self-effacing. Some Americans i've known (of those, i've known quite a few, for obvious reasons) have been loud and pushy, others not--some have been self-effacing. Some cultures have different values on public behavior. Canadians, for example, are polite, often to a fault. Enough so that they make jokes about it. That doesn't mean that there aren't abrasive, pushy Canadians, it simply means that that sort of behavior is less immediately noticeable. I suspect that in some circumstances, anyone from any culture can be involved long enough in a contentious discussion to drop whatever patina of courtesy their culture imposes. To be forthright, and to speak plainly is a valued cultural trait among Americans. That doesn't mean that you'll see that behavior in all Americans.

As a caveat, i'm just expressing my opinion--how i see it. I don't assert that this is factual, or a matter of "reality."

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@OmSigDAVID,

You're welcome David.

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@aidan,

Quote:

And I wanted to add that David, though an American and an American from New York at that - someone who has very strong views - is an EXCELLENT listener. That's one of the first things I noticed about him on a2k and in real life.

Quit that, Now Dave is gonna go around thinking that people actually LIKE HIM. Wink

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@farmerman,

That is metaphysically impossible.

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@aidan,

I know what you mean with New York City and big city people.
I lived in New York and had no problems with people because I had lived in Copenhagen before that - also big city people.

I have also spent a lot of time in the Mid West. People there are different from New Yorkers.
In Sweden years ago often you could see a man when entering a restaurant taking out his comb and combing his hair while looking for a table. (Men have other hairstyles now)
Sitting in a restaurant in Wisconsin this happened, so I said just for fun. "Guess that man is a Swede" --- The couple from Wisconsin said: "How do you know?? His grandfather came over from Sweden"
Three generations of the same habit.

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@farmerman,

I do like him - precisely because he's one of a kind-just another brightly colored thread in life's rich tapestry.

But seriously - that's what I appreciate and use this forum for more than anything else. Precisely the fact that there ARE people who are willing to express things more overtly and fact of the matter than they would be willing to in real life.

You can get run-of -the -mill , follow all the social niceties conversation every day in real life - at least I can. But it's sometimes fun to read the rubber to the road sort of communication that happens here. And I don't call that trolling - unless as I said-it's out and out mean and rude and cruel. And oftentimes that happens under the guise of extreme politeness...sometimes it doesn't even entail words at all.

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@saab,

Quote:

I have also spent a lot of time in the Mid West. People there are different from New Yorkers

Actually that's what I love about the US the most - everyone has their own style and feels allowed to express it.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

Abrasive is that what I would call a "besserwisser"? ....A Besserwisser is not really bulluing - all you can do is to let them have the last word.

The objection isn't to "I know better" types, it's to "I know better what's good for YOU". It's a substantive, not a stylistic, distinction. On style, pick the sign you think best represents your posts - Ms Olga is clearly a tea-drinker, the rest of us vary:

http://www.newyorker.com/images/2010/03/22/p233/100322_cn1chastcoffee_p233.jpg

http://www.newyorker.com/humor

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@aidan,

Quote:

This can be true, but varies even within America. If you live in New York or the surrounding metropolitan or tri-state area (NY, New Jersey, Connecticut) the way you communicate is, by definition and requirement, different from if you live down south or in the midwest. It's direct, straight to the point and succinct. It might seem rude and abrasive even to other Americans in it's directness. But it's just that you're in a hurry- there's always lots of people wanting the same thing - it's just a rhythmn. If you want to say something - you better speak up and lay it on the line. If you're from there, you understand that and don't get offended by it as others who come from other places might.

Maybe that's why David and I just find it easy to let what other considers trolling roll on by. He ignores it

It also varies by class and family. My brothers wife grew up less than 5 miles from where my brother and I did, but she at first was amazed and not liking how my brother and I constantly get into loud forceful discussions. At first she thought that maybe we did not like each other much, that we needed to fight, and fighting was what we were doing. On day she figured something out, and as we were in the middle of something said "you two LIKE doing this dont you?". We said yes if course.

It is how we roll in my family.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

The objection isn't to "I know better" types, it's to "I know better what's good for YOU

well yes, there are a good many liberals at a2k, and liberals are well known for pulling the Bs that you describe. Others do it as well.

For me the main problem here however is that while "I know better" and the willingness to try to prove it is very admirable and helpful to the community (the human race) we have way way too much "I am better than you and this is why" here at a2k.

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@High Seas,

I am sorry, but I really don´t know what you are talking about.
A besserwisser is a person who knows better than you do in every walk of life, usually starts a sentence with NO to anything you say whatever it is your taste, your knowledge, your health, your body and soul.
I say" I think the new houses are beautiful"
Answer from a besserwisser "No they are not"
Answer from a person with another taste than I: " I don´t think so"

Please what does tea-drinking have to do with besserwisser?

2 Replies

Trolls, or trolling behaviour ...how do we deal with these isues as an online community?

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