Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

@spendius,

You make avery interesting point spendy, one every sci-fi fan would recognise straight away. It started with Mary Shelly but it will never end. We will have to keep an eye on science, it might blow up in our faces.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

If you drag out a physics book when you need instinctive reaction then you are dead. You do not drag out a biology book when you want to marry. These instincts are in the same realm as religion and we pooh-pah them at our own expense.

Just because non-empirical decisions are not in the realm of science, does not necessarily place them in the realm of religion. Many people handle emotional decisions just fine without any reliance on religion at all.

And I would argue that the safest and most instinctive basis for all survival related decisions is actually based on naturalistic assumptions, not theological ones.

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@Ionus,

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I support religious people because they emphasise important things in life and I support science because it develops our understanding of our universe. But science is a long way from being the ultimate survival package. If you drag out a physics book when you need instinctive reaction then you are dead. You do not drag out a biology book when you want to marry.

Point to qwhere anyone is even suggesting that? I think youre trying to haze up your early points by trying to now sound philosophical Wink

. I think Ive got your number

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Not at all. I support the teaching of evolution as science and using the Bible as teaching points for religious instruction on morality

Then you are seriously missing what the culture wars are about here in the US. As weve said over and over, The Religious Fundamentalists and ID "Scientists" areattempting to infiltrate their dogma INTO PUBLIC SCHOOL SCIENCE.

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That is exactly the attitude of a lot of sneering worshippers of science on this forum. You have said you do that yourself.

I dodo it, however, I DONT SNEER AT RELIGION WHILE IM A TEACHER. Thats a quick way to kill my credibility. I try to prove my point or provide evidence of the point. If someone disagrees based on some religious principle I merely state that Id be interested in comparing evidence.

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They (The "Science guiys") also go to great pains and waste their time to disprove the Bible as being literally true. For the vast majority of its time the Bible was not regarded as literally true, most priests couldnt even read it. Obedience to the catholic hierarchy was more important

Post Reformation foundations of several hundred sects are replete with Biblical Inerrancy. You and I agree that the Bible was never meant to be a foundation of data.

(Lewis Black, the comedian, who is Jewish, stated that "The Old TEstament" was the Book of "HIS PEOPLE" (The Jews) and his people were known to be the biggest bullshitters on the planet. They NEVER meant anyone to take all that crap as fact. Thats why most Rabbis couldnt fathom any of the SOuthern Fundamentalists trying to offer SCIENCE DEGREES IN BIBLICAL GEOLOGY OR CREATIONISM SCIENCE. This is actually going on in the US at some very "presitgious" Bible colleges . Many Bible centered guys go and attain PHDs from places like STanford and then try to spend the rest of their lives proving that science is incorrect on its owncourt.

Giving religion and ethics their due is fine. I support "the free expression" of ones religious views, AGAIN However, They shall NOT present their worldview in the schools payed for by my taxes.

If you dont understand that point then you need to, otherwise your POV is skewed away from the facts of the "culture differences" in US.

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@rosborne979,

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Just because non-empirical decisions are not in the realm of science, does not necessarily place them in the realm of religion.

What ros means by the realm of science is that limited realm he knows the general labels for.

How does he know that there are any such things as non-empirical decisions. It's a little conceited affectation of his that they exist. His position demands it. It's a belief system. And it's due to him not only not understanding how all decisions are empirical but because he dismisses the notion out of hand as something only weak-minded people accept.

He never dare allow it to enter his consciousness that theological decisions are empirical. If he did he couldn't attack them. And that would never do because he has personal issues with them about which enough has been said already.

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@farmerman,

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I dodo it, however, I DONT SNEER AT RELIGION WHILE IM A TEACHER. Thats a quick way to kill my credibility. I try to prove my point or provide evidence of the point. If someone disagrees based on some religious principle I merely state that Id be interested in comparing evidence.

Do you mean to say that worrying about your credibilty takes precedence over the scientific truth. That's a bit narcissistic I must say. If you sneer at religion at all you should sneer at it all the time and let your credibility take its chances.

We all know by know that you select the evidence which you think proves your own point like a boxer selecting the gloves with the horseshoes in them.

Show you anything else and it's on Ignore for you matey or some devious aspect of it.

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@Ionus,

Its interesting how you and (you claim) that spendi understand the points behind science fistion. However, you do not seem to understand the seriousness of how a book like the Bible is actually used as a source book and is the center of some basis of a deranged science. The only other recent phenom like that is the science fiction books of L Ron Hubbard who founded a religion for rich insane people based upon his very books.
Its amazing what people believe and try to push on others as "truth".
I am very comfortable with how finely our constitution is milled. It makes for great sport and prevents any religious group from gaining a handhold on any part of our public lives.

Youve actually gotta live here to understand it. I dont think that you appreciate the one-sided assault being waged by "religious" fundamentalists.

Ive got no problem with Catholic science any more. I used to be one and got the shits of it by age 10 or so (1960)when we were given the crap about "special evolution". That was something that was finally cleaned out of the bin by John Paul 23. Still, there are several really Orthodox Christain cults and sects who firmly believe the Bibles accounts of "science" and are very active trying to develop strategies to infiltrate public schools. They missed their biggest chances during the GW Bush years. The DOVER case was being pushed as a "test case" for Creationism (and its legitimate child ID) starting shortly around the time of the 2000 elections). This was no fantasy, It actually happened and there were several other cases waiting in the wings that were dependent on how DOVER would play out. The IDesr were merely smugly confident that they would be given a higher rung on the academic scale. Were they surprised at how they lost. It was an ignominious deeat for ID because not only did they lose in the merits of the case, but the judge, in his decison , madse them sound like fraudulent criminals who were attempting to coopt the entire school curriculum based on misrepresentations and untruths.
As you can see, outside of a few activist school boards and whacko governors like Bobbie Jindal of Louisiana, the entire movement is now searching for a "hook". They no longer have a message. The entire program of "Research" into Intelligent Design has been slowly unfunded by the loudest past supporters.

When you (and spendi) attempt to gradually move your points of unerstanding around the board so as to "try" to appear reasonable. I just harken you back to your earlier posts.
Ive got no problem doing that, as many on these boards have reminded spendi of his silly walk and movable claims

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@farmerman,

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They shall NOT present their worldview in the schools payed for by my taxes.

And here you go again. Let the kids in the schools that are not payed for by your taxes go hang eh. Serves 'em right for going to a school not payed for by your taxes.

I've got news for you fm. You don't pay any taxes. It's an illusion. It's all the government's money. You could never have got any money out of your own resources. Neither could anybody else. It's all book transactions designed to create certain directions in behaviour.

Whoever heard of a teacher writing off kids just because they don't cost him anything. That's a time-server not a teacher.

My posts are dedicated to all kids. I don't pick and choose and patronise any of them.

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@farmerman,

Since you have mentioned the farce at Dover again could you post the two paragraphs that all the money got shifted around over.

Thanking you in anticipation I remain etc etc....

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@spendius,

Working on a routine to take on the comedy circuit?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

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And exactly how do you see humans as unnatural ?

Well, according to your religious belief, humans are unnatural, since we're created by the supernatural. (I think I already explained why I used the other connotation of the word "natural" for the sake of clarity, but it seem that you been confused beyond comprehension, or you simply want to establish a circus).

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Intuition is complex thinking that can not be laid out with words in steps. It involves instincts like the natural world you are fond of..

Intuition is complex? Intuition is the simplest thing in the world: it's just guess work...it's whether you think something is true or not without anything supporting it. That's as simple as it can get.

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This is puzzling...you are aware the point under discussion was your claim that the Bible says the earth is flat ? And you respond with more nonsense.

If you have any knowledge of ancient civilization, you also would know that the Hebrews were "flat-earth" believers, along with many other societies. The only person who was able figure out that the Earth was an sphere was the Greek Eratosthenes. Let me allow the demigod Carl Sagan explain this better (go to the link below)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650

Just like these verses (Job 38:13, Job 37:3, Job 28:24, Isaiah 40:22) clearly teach (and was the belief of many) that the Earth was flat and round, just like the following illustration:

http://www.islammonitor.org/uploads/pics/flatearth.jpg

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Alien hand syndrome is a very visible type of "posession" as is madness from eating the mould on grain.

What possess it the hand, the grain "mould" , or is it just a neurological disorder, like Parkinson's disease and others ?

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I am being scientific here...your response has been to say something is impossible because it does not happen every time. Clearly in your world people cant get run over crossing the street.

You're being scientific is like saying that baldness is a new hairstyle.
What doesn't happen every time: the amputee growing a leg due to "divine" intervention or the person being cured of Alien Hand Syndrome by prayer?

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I dont know, you are the one using the word magic, you tell me ...

Let me try to explain this to you. This is just a question resulting from a comment I previously posted:
I wrote:

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that magical enchantment is factual

which you responded to this :

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Are you aware of the curative power/ healing power of placebos ?

And I finally answered you with :

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What does the placebo effect has to do with magic? Can you cure cancer with the placebo effect? If so, why isn't this technique implemented in hospitals? Better yet, why don't we get rid of all the scientific, medical technologies used to treat diseases from hospitals and replace them with preachers or pastors? let's see what might happen.

Come on, man...focus!

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The penalty is conflict. It is a penalty because neither side can benefit but it disrupts communication. Dont pretend to be stupid..you dont have to...

There is no goddamn penalty...it is just two parties disagreeing in an argument, which is the product of living in a democracy...if you told me that this argument took place 500 years ago, I would agree with you that there would be a price to pay...and you might know what the penalty would be.

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Would this be the same billions who are overpopulating the world and destroying it ?

What do you suggest we do about the over population? Kill as many to keep the natural balance? Besides, it is religion that is against birth control and promotes the proliferation of humans on this Earth, which is a gift from God...opposed to secular rationalist who promote the use of birth control and other means to educate our society....but you didn't know this, right?

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You remember the nature of the universe that you worship ?

Yes, I worship the god of relativity, space and time, Albert Einstein... and Gaea.

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Well how about starting in your own backyard, the earth.

Are you speaking allegorically or literally? With you, I would never know.

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As you are incapable of phrasing that as a question to be worthy of an answer I will treat you with the contempt you deserve.
Back away from the mirror until you can see something else.

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Clearly you chose to weasel out of my question.

I'm not weaseling out of anything ...I'm trying my best to explain it to you in a way that you'd understand...I think you're the one weaseling out of questions I asked you...

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Would this be the same science that is destroying nature and overpopulating the world ?

No, that would be religion...happy with the answer?

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If you cant debate, get help or leave.

I have a quote very suitable to this statement of yours:
"You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?" -- Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith

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So you wish to list all the good things done by science and all tha bad things done by religion ...why is that ? Bias ? Hypocracy ? Bigotry ?

No, I'm just listing the deeds done by secular humanists rationalist who use science to advance human knowledge and progression, and list all the things done by religion and other irrational thinking that are detrimental to acquiring this knowledge ...I just like to separate those two.

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Really....I wonder if anyone will believe you....perhaps your mum ?

In fact, she does believe me.

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Just as I thought. You think science is power and if you believe in science you will be powerful.

Well...look around you...look in front of you...better yet, do you have medical insurance?

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Look at your narcistic homosexual avatar...what sort of person has that degree of self worship ?

Do you find me attractive? I think you do. This is like the 5th time you have mentioned my my avatar picture, which has nothing to do with the argument at hand..are you spending too much time staring at it? I think I've found the reason for your lack of concentration...since you like my avatar so much, I'm going to keep it...how about that?

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Are you short ? Like about 5'2" ?

Since you're so adamant to know...you're very close...I'm 4'11'': measuring 4 feet vertically and 11 inches horizontally...now, do you want to ask me out now? Twisted Evil

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650

I miss old Carl. He looks so young in that clip. I think I saw that when it first came out, I must have been a kid.

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

I miss him too...it's a great loss.

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@Philis,

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Where do you get the Bible states the earth is flat, that was a midieval belief.

The Bible teaches that the Earth is flat.

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In the book of Job it states cleary, long before modern man even knew the earth was round

.
The book of job states that the world is round, like a dome, not spherical.

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Job stated you hang the earth on nothing.

okay...

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If you read the book of Job carefully you can see that before mankind knew about things, Job knew things about the depths of the ocean and the earth etc.

Can you provide me the verses that support your statement?

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

I don't see your point JP. You seem to be taking the Bible a bit to heart.

Are we to take your sig. line to mean you have studied Homer and Aristotle or are you just name dropping to cosy up to greatness?

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Evolution is a killer idea.

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@rosborne979,

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Just because non-empirical decisions are not in the realm of science, does not necessarily place them in the realm of religion.

You cant read. I wrote they are both in the same realm, not one is in the realm of the other.

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And I would argue that the safest and most instinctive basis for all survival related decisions is actually based on naturalistic assumptions, not theological ones.

I assume this is based on your lack of comprehension of what I wrote ? It has nothing to do with what I said.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

I'm afraid Io that ros doesn't understand anything of any importance. He read Sagan in his youth and it blew his mind. The simplicity attracted him. He stalled.

He has had me on Ignore for ages.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

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Point to qwhere anyone is even suggesting that?

I am suggesting that...you see my post is headlined by my avatar, as is yours...this means what follows is that persons opinion.

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I think Ive got your number

You keep saying that but I feel no shock or awe at your cleverness.

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Then you are seriously missing what the culture wars are about here in the US.

I am not missing anything. I am stating my opinion. If my position is not shared by others, take it up with them.

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This is actually going on in the US at some very "presitgious" Bible colleges .

Yet you assure me your constitution works well and has the matter under control.

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They shall NOT present their worldview in the schools payed for by my taxes.

Do you realise that if we agree on a point then your going on and on about it will make it seem like you love the sound of your own voice ?

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If you dont understand that point then you need to,

Are you saying that if I agree with you then I clearly do not understand the point ? Is that because you are wrong ?

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@farmerman,

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Its amazing what people believe and try to push on others as "truth".

Such as scientific theory which is not established fact.

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I dont think that you appreciate the one-sided assault being waged by "religious" fundamentalists.

Yet you have assured me your constitution has it under control.

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When you (and spendi) attempt to gradually move your points of unerstanding around the board so as to "try" to appear reasonable. I just harken you back to your earlier posts. Ive got no problem doing that, as many on these boards have reminded spendi of his silly walk and movable claims

It is obvious to me at least that we try to comunicate with you and when you can not see a point it is phrased differently. But it is becoming increasingly obvious that you do not read the post you are respoding to...your religious fervour has blinded you.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

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Working on a routine to take on the comedy circuit?

Still running around trying to nip heels I see....

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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

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