Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

@Jason Proudmoore,

I have no one "on ignore." However, i do ignore Spuriouis, because he's a flannel-mouthed gobshite with nothing worth reading to contribute to any discussion of which i have ever been a part. I've not read his posts for years now.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

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I did not say "human nature" ...I said "nature",

And exactly how do you see humans as unnatural ?

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with the human nature of intuition and unreasonable thinking ...

Intuition is complex thinking that can not be laid out with words in steps. It involves instincts like the natural world you are fond of..

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No...it's not my" latest nonsense"...this nonsense belongs to the Bible as you should have known:
1 Chronicles 16:30:
Psalm 93:1
Psalm 96:10
Psalm 104:5
Isaiah 45:18
Daniel 4:10-11
and there are more....

This is puzzling...you are aware the point under discussion was your claim that the Bible says the earth is flat ? And you respond with more nonsense.

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Yeah...it's a neurological disorder.

Alien hand syndrome is a very visible type of "posession" as is madness from eating the mould on grain.

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you're not being scientific here,

I am being scientific here...your response has been to say something is impossible because it does not happen every time. Clearly in your world people cant get run over crossing the street.

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What does the placebo effect has to do with magic?

I dont know, you are the one using the word magic, you tell me ...

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What is the penalty that is being paid here? And why is it a penalty?

The penalty is conflict. It is a penalty because neither side can benefit but it disrupts communication. Dont pretend to be stupid..you dont have to...

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Tell that to millions if not billions of people who are dependent on it (science)...

Would this be the same billions who are overpopulating the world and destroying it ? You remember the nature of the universe that you worship ? Well how about starting in your own backyard, the earth.

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What the hell are you talking about "nothingness"...focus, man.

As you are incapable of phrasing that as a question to be worthy of an answer I will treat you with the contempt you deserve. Back away from the mirror until you can see something else.

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If you can't understand this, I'll be glad to explain it to you.

Clearly you chose to weasel out of my question. Would this be the same science that is destroying nature and overpopulating the world ? If you cant debate, get help or leave.

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No, I mean the discovery of the cure for polio;

So you wish to list all the good things done by science and all tha bad things done by religion ...why is that ? Bias ? Hypocracy ? Bigotry ?

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I said : That reduces human existence to carbon atoms ?

and you reply :

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I don't know what you're trying to say....

Really....I wonder if anyone will believe you....perhaps your mum ?

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I'm going to pour some libation to my altar of Albert Einstein.

Just as I thought. You think science is power and if you believe in science you will be powerful. Look at your narcistic homosexual avatar...what sort of person has that degree of self worship ? Are you short ? Like about 5'2" ?

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@farmerman,

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Can you see that qhen a religious group demands that its view of how the world came into being and how life developed on the planet, be taught as SCIENCE, we have a clear discrepancy to the maintenance of a secular state.

Yes I can.

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FREE EXPRESSION does not mean that your beliefs must be taken seriously in a public school.

Agreed.

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NOONE HANDED US A CONSTITUTION, we hammered it

Well you did a lousy job if it creates more conflict than countries that dont have one.

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The most recent decison of Edwards v Aguillard , clearly stated what the court saw as "religious teaching" masquerading as science. Thus the SUpremes struck down the teaching of Creationism in Louisianas schools because there was a law in Louisiana that required eqaul time be given to Creationism in science classes.Thats clearly a minority religious view.

Agreed.

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Im not gonna discuss this any further with you

You always say that and then there you are in the nest post. Try to be decisive.

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@farmerman,

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You can teach the trutle theory of creation

What is a trutle ? Do you mean turtle ?

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In fact, it preserves the religious freedoms of those who dont buy into Creationism as being valid.

Agreed.

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You seem to be standing up for some "license" of the religious fundamentalists to impose their limited worldview on the rest of us.

You are having trouble reading and writing. You have assumed you know my position but clearly you havent even bothered to read what I have stated my position as...if thats the best you can do, dont bother...

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@edgarblythe,

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Pepper and flyshit - perfect.
Spendi gets more hysterically ridiculous the more he gets pinned down. fm and jason are in particularly great form today.

You are always a little dog running around nipping at heels...you cant be taken seriously when all you ever say can be obtained from the most bubble headed cheer leader.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Where do you get the Bible states the earth is flat, that was a midieval belief. In the book of Job it states cleary, long before modern man even knew the earth was round. Job stated you hang the earth on nothing. If you read the book of Job carefully you can see that before mankind knew about things, Job knew things about the depths of the ocean and the earth etc.

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@edgarblythe,

I said-

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Follow nature then Ed. Then you can wag your tail.

You then said that I had said you had a tail.

Which I didn't. I know that there is zero chance of you following nature. It was just a doting dog joke.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

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Why would Setanta ignore you?

Because I'm a flannel-mouthed gobshite with nothing worth reading to contribute to any discussion of which he has ever been a part. So you and he disagree on that point.

He doesn't have me on ignore he says. Which is news to me. But he ignores me anyway whether he has me on ignore or not. And him saying that he has no-one on ignore is in the present tense. It says nothing about the past.

The assertion also saves him from being stumped. If a "flannel-mouthed gobshite with nothing worth reading to contribute" stumps him he uses the assertion to avoid exposing his being stumped and to win the argument.

The root of the problem I think is that he wants to discuss the teaching of evolution in schools in an intellectual vacuum and I want to discuss the social consequences of it and he is unable to face up to that. He must think, I assume, that there won't be any sociological implications and that the matter can fruitfully be addressed as if there are not 50,000,000 kids in the schools, nor any teachers being selected by school boards, and that all the kids, even though he is having to pretend they don't exist or are inanimate objects, are all going to be biological scientists and have no sex lives or moral values.

He wants to abolish religion without offering any guidance on what he thinks will happen if we do on his recommendations. He has a dreadful fear of being manipulated and truly believes he thinks for himself and he doesn't like questions relating to 301,000,000 Americans who are not manipulated and who all think for themselves and who, presumably, base that thinking on their carnal impulses or on his directives.

His ignoring of such questions is the computer room version of the Kremlin walls.

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@Ionus,

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What is a trutle ? Do you mean turtle ?

Yes, My spelling and typos mingle to provide me ever new horizons of copy.

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clearly you havent even bothered to read what I have stated my position as...if thats the best you can do, dont bother...

I have to admonish you to try harder at communication then. Just because you FEEL you say something in print, doesnt mean that its readily obvious to any others but you. You do have a habit, after youve been challenged, of trying to conflate what you say originally with what youve been challenged on. Others have noted this annoying habit and Im just joining in. DOnt take it too prsonally but, I think your cover has been blown a while back . So, you appear to support the teaching of Creationist thinking in science in US public schools. Ive merely been trying to open your eyes to the way that the US Constitution ansd the SUpreme Court have come down on that entire issue.

You seem to confuse "rights" with "license" in many of your comments. Our rights are clearly defined and equally clearly interpreted, and the way evolution is handled in public schools is religion-free. SImilarly, whenever (and it has happened rarely) a teacher xcriticizes opposite beliefes , ie Creationism, in their classes, the teachers are severely reprimanded. (In one case a techer was fired). So the point of law swings two ways in public schools. We dont look at this as some childish game where the winners can taunt the Creationists

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@farmerman,

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and the way evolution is handled in public schools is religion-free.

You know that is not true fm. Or you should do by now. I have explained it to you so many times that it is obviously no use doing so again. It is more likely to be content-free and nothing but a series of platitudes which, when regurgitated in exam papers, results in master's degrees and other flim-flam by which the good folks are flattered into thinking they are elite material and relieved of some of their money in return for illuminated scrolls, caps and gowns and video recordings of the ceremonies plus any extras the authorities can get away with.

It's all rather complex actually and, as such, beyond your ken and especially so when you are wearing your rose-tinted gogglers.

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@spendius,

Since I actually do follow nature, it was an obvious mistake.

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@spendius,

well, youre still full of **** spendi. Why dont you take a trip ?

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@farmerman,

He's a regular diarrhea of poor speeches.

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@edgarblythe,

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Since I actually do follow nature,

A mere affectation Ed. I hope so anyway.

J.S. Mill gives a pleasant picture of Nature on pages 28-31 of his essay entitled Nature: The Utility of Religion: Theism.

I recommend it to you.

Natural man is considered (pages 46-54) pugnacious and irascible and without true courage. With a bestial lack of cleanliness and a liar. He is unjust and profoundly selfish and an egoist first, second, third and fourth. And his duty is to follow such a nature and not to try to amend it because it is considered right and proper that man wouldn't be like that if he wasn't meant to be.

I'm sure you're nothing like that Ed. I'm sure you have been amended. I bet you don't piss in the sink when the pots are still in it. I don't.

Evolution is a dangerous idea because it promotes such a description as "good" and undermines those institutions which try to amend it.

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@farmerman,

I sincerely hope fm that you and Ed are not influencing Ionus's view of the mature American male intellectual.

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@spendius,

Ionus speaks and stands up for himself. I Doubt he takes directions from you. Your influence on individuals on this board is primarily in your fevered mind.

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@farmerman,

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What is a trutle ? Do you mean turtle ?

Yes, My spelling and typos mingle to provide me ever new horizons of copy.

The reason I ask is because you might have been referring to a turtle or the truth. But you mean the creation turtle where everything rides on its back ?

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you appear to support the teaching of Creationist thinking in science in US public schools.

Not at all. I support the teaching of evolution as science and using the Bible as teaching points for religious instruction on morality.

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You seem to confuse "rights" with "license" in many of your comments.

I am not confused as to what they mean and how they apply.

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We dont look at this as some childish game where the winners can taunt the Creationists

That is exactly the attitude of a lot of sneering worshippers of science on this forum. You have said you do that yourself.

I support religious people because they emphasise important things in life and I support science because it develops our understanding of our universe. But science is a long way from being the ultimate survival package. If you drag out a physics book when you need instinctive reaction then you are dead. You do not drag out a biology book when you want to marry. These instincts are in the same realm as religion and we pooh-pah them at our own expense. Many of those attacking the religious people here are NOT scientists and are insecure. So we have non-scientist aetheists attacking non-scientist theists by using science to disprove a negative. Very clever. They also go to great pains and waste their time to disprove the Bible as being literally true. For the vast majority of its time the Bible was not regarded as literally true, most priests couldnt even read it. Obedience to the catholic hierarchy was more important. On the split from catholicism, the protestants needed to justify their position so the Bible became literal truth.
There is no practical reason why science and religion can not co-exist.

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@farmerman,

I am well aware fm that A2Kers are seemingly beyond the reach of any force for influence. They are independent spirits who think for themselves don't you know.

But Ionus seems a very intelligent chap and is obviously a fine, upstanding member of his community and if he gets the impression that the mature American male intellectual is a blurting machine in programmed cliche mode, which it would be reasonable for him to do in view of the posts I see, he is likely to disseminate the impression to his countrymen and be believed.

The first American male I ever so was in a London street. He was shouting obscenities and insults at a building at the top of his voice. I was only 16 at the time and stood fascinated at such a spectacle. Eventually a young policewoman came up and led him away.

I think you and Ed should take some trouble to represent American manhood on an international forum in a better light than you do.

The ladies who flatter you are only trying to aggravate me.

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@Ionus,

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You do not drag out a biology book when you want to marry.

When they come to power Io that is exactly what they will do. Of course it will be a biology book which demonstrates the superiority of their own genetic composition and which they will swear is the empirical scientific truth and it will be peer-reviewed.

How on earth did fm get the impression that you support Creationism in science classes? Although I must admit that his use of "appear" might have been a neat convenience for him.

I think science and religion can only co-exist if religion is the higher authority. If science is the higher authority religion will disappear and then science will be the only authority and the end of our civilisation will shortly follow.

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@spendius,

We had an ex-US marine (serving Oz army) who was a (later diagnosed as) schizophrenic but I was happy to have him in my unit. He was a great asset if used to the best employ of his abilities in certain areas. His wife and he were ostracised and everyone was rather cruel to them. Eventually he was discharged on a pension. I treated him fairly, firmly and friendly and he worked his little butt off and produced damn fine work. The trick is to see people for what they are and dont emply them in tasks they are not good at....there are no bad soldiers, only bad commanders.

I also saw a US woman standing on a busy railway station going on at the top of her voice about how there were no beautiful people in Oz and how ugly we were, not like Americans, the beautiful people.

I had the honour of serving alongside many US soldiers, and they did their country proud, giving me an outlook towards USAians that no individual could destroy. I also had a good friend saved by a black american who placed himself at considerable risk in doing so. I like to think I have more understanding of the people on this forum then they give me credit for....

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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

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