English to Latin translation.

Ne Obliviscamur

Many thanks George,

It is much appreciated.

I have noted from reading extensively the previous 'English to Latin' translation forums that you are one of the most helpful and courteous responders, so I feel fairly safe in asking the following questions.

1. Is it true that the word 'lest' doesnt actually exist in Latin?
2. The automated translation 'lest nos alieno' is one totally incorrect and two rather vulgar in its gramatical sense?
3. Reverse translation 'lest we to let go'!
4. Ne Obliviscamur - Should this be printed in uppercase?
5. Could you break down the translation for me? Just for a better understanding.
6. The u in Obliviscamur should be V when printed? If so what about the v?
7. Is there an accepted typeface/font?

Sorry for all these questions but I need to be certain before I go the expense of embroidery and as the crew will hopefuly we wearing their fleeces with pride thay don't get questioned about the meaning.

Kind regards

Kes

Sure, ask away.
1. Is it true that the word 'lest' doesnt actually exist in Latin?
"Lest" is just the negative of "that" as in "Lest we forget" is equivalent to
"That we not forget." In Latin "ut" is "that" and "ne" is "lest". So,
actually, "lest" does exist in Latin. Or rather, a translation of it. The word
itself is English.

2. The automated translation 'lest nos alieno' is one totally incorrect and two
rather vulgar in its gramatical sense?
Lest -- this is an English word. When autmated translators encounter a word
they can't find in their database, they leave the original word in place.
nos -- Latin for "we", but in Latin you seldom use pronouns in the subject
because they are implied in the format of the verb.
alieno -- this verb's primary meaning is to make something another's. One of
it's alternate meanings is to remove from the mind. So in that sense, it can
mean "forget".
I don't don't know any vulgar meaning associated with the phrase, but is
certainly incorrect.

3. Reverse translation 'lest we to let go'!
I assume you mean that "lest we to let go" is what the translator spit back
when you put "lest nos alieno" in. Note that "to get go" is another alternate
meaning of "alieno".

4. Ne Obliviscamur - Should this be printed in uppercase?
It's common practice to use upper and lower case in Latin much the same
we as we do in English. I generally use upper and lower case in the same
way the requestor uses them. Back in Roman days, they used all caps and
ran words together. Reading classical Latin inscriptions will cross your eyes!

5. Could you break down the translation for me? Just for a better
understanding.
Ne -- Lest or That not
Obliviscamur -- first person plural present subjunctive of "obliviscor".
"Obliviscor" is a deponent verb so it has a passive format even though
its meaning is active. I know that all sounds like gobbledegook, but if
you want further explanation, I'll be happy to provide it.

6. The u in Obliviscamur should be V when printed? If so what about the v?
In classical times, there was no 'u', just 'v'. At some point -- I don't know
when -- 'u' came into use. Most Latin you see will use both 'u' and 'v'.

7. Is there an accepted typeface/font?
I don't think so.
"Times New Roman" is close to the Roman style.
"Old English Text" is more medieval.
Personally, I like a Celtic font.

Wow,

unbelievably helpful, thank you.

My Latin is restricted to the numerals for easily dating books and extremely limited capability of breaking a word down to its components to get a very ignorant translation without meaning.

Are you in UK? Can you recommend any Latin college, text book , or dictionary?

Would love to learn Latin, but with five Little Ships of Dunkirk to restore, a day job, and a family I'm a little busy.

I really appreciate your help in this.

Just for clarification, I'm going to ask the embroiderer to stitch [Ne Obliviscamur] exactly as it appears in the brackets with the possibility of using a Roman typeface?

Which Celtic typeface would you recommend?

Kindest regards

Kes

5. Could you break down the translation for me? Just for a better
understanding.
Ne -- Lest or That not
Obliviscamur -- first person plural present subjunctive of "obliviscor".
"Obliviscor" is a deponent verb so it has a passive format even though
its meaning is active. I know that all sounds like gobbledegook, but if
you want further explanation, I'll be happy to provide it.


Yes please,

If you have time and patience would very much appreciate a further explanation.

The endings of Latin verbs change according to person and number as well as
tense and mood. English verbs are boring:
I forget, you forget, he forgets (1st, 2nd and third persons singular)
We forget, you forget, they forget (1st, 2nd and third persons plural)
Not much to it, only the 3rd person singular is different -- it adds an 's'.
Now look at the corresponding Latin:
obliviscor, oblivisceris, obliviscitur
obliviscimur, obliviscimini, obliviscuntur
No need for person pronouns -- you can tell by the verb endings.

The above is the indicative mood. The 3rd person plural is
obliviscimur (we forget). But I used the subjunctive mood
obliviscamur. The subjunctive is for (among other things)
purpose clauses. A purpose clause is a clause which expresses that
someone does something in order that something else might happen,
or in this case, not happen. "Lest we forget" is a purpose clause, thus
we use the subjunctive.

Hope this helps.

Hello again,

Please slow down.

I am , unfortunately not capable of immediate assimilation of knowledge only regurgitation. The RN, however special, did not or could not teach this function.

In my uneducated and subsequent ignorant state cannot express any boredom for English, and only an admiration for the complexity for Latin.

The third person plural you indicate as being 'they forget' or obliviscuntur. The first person plural 'we forget' being obliviscimur. It then progresses subjunctive mood.

Unfortunately the rest does not assimilate due to lack of the knowledge in my own tongue let alone anything as complex as Latin.

Could we start again? From the basics? I, We, They?

Regards

Kes

OK, so we're talking about Latin verbs. They change to show the following
things.
Person -- 1st 2nd 3rd
Number -- singular or plural
Tense -- such as present and future
Mood -- such as indicative, imperative or subjunctive

Person, number, and tense are pretty straightforward.
Mood is a little trickier.
When we say a verb is in the indicative mood, we mean it is making a statement.
e.g. "We forget."
Imperative mood is used for commands.
e.g. "Forget it."
Subjunctive mood has a number fo uses, but the one we care about here
is to express purpose.
e.g. "Lest we forget."

The 1st person plural, present subjunctive of obliviscor (forget) is:
obliviscamur

Wow. George. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this for Kes. I've been eavesdropping and learned a good deal. Belle

George, I don't know if you will check back on this site, but if so, would you be willing to offer your expertise in translating another short phrase? I'm trying to find a way to say what would be the opposite of "Memento mori"--so, in other words, I want the message to be "Forget death/mortality!" (this is for a play I'm writing for my MFA thesis).

I don't know how to conjugate in Latin. This would be in the imperative, second person plural case--as a command to all. Basically it's in the context of a play where death is being conquered (sort of) and so "death" or "mortality" is somewhat personified as something to be disregarded.

Online translators give a wide variety of answers, so I don't know what to select. It was in searching for this that I stumbled on this particular thread.

Would "Alieno mori!" work? Or "alieno nex"?

Or is the correct verb "obliviscor"? Is so, what is the correct case (for 2nd person plural imperative)?

I thank you very much for your time should you find this thread again.

Best regards,

Belle Black

Yes, obliviscor is the correct verb.
It's second person plural imperative is obliviscimini.

Obliviscimini mortem.


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