Suicide....Should it be legal?

truth
Earlier I cracked facetiously that attempted suicide should be considered a capital offense. But I recall something Nietzsche said on the subject. He said that we often consider it justice to take a man's life, but it is never, he said, just to take away a man's death.

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But see my post above, when a person is under severe mental strain or an illness - that he can get through but doesn't realise it at the time - it is surely the moral course to prevent him doing harm to himself?

Legality doesn't seem an issue but suppose I, caring for my husband, found that he'd killed himself by taking medication that I had left around. Probably in law I might be regarded as accessory in the self-murder and therefore culpable.

I don't think suicide should be illegal, but I don't think it's quite as simple as Nietsche would have it.

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I'm fine with the law. The only reason it is there is so that people who attempt suicide (and fail) can be forced to get help. It's not like the government can actually prevent you from offing yourself.

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truth
I agree with Portal Star here. But, Clary, I do believe that Nietzsche was not referring to those tragic suicides resulting from an impulsive reaction to a temporary pain or depression. He was referring to the sober, sane, rationally considered conscious decision to end one's life.

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That is probably true, but how many suicides are really like that? I would say most suicides are depressives and are reacting to brain chemistry - post Nietschean obviously. It's all too easy to elevate a chemical state into a world view, a philosophy, a raison d'agir.

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Re: truth

JLNobody wrote:

Clary, havn't you answered your own question? During the last two years he is NOT the man you love(d). The man you loved is now a wonderful memory; the man you are dealing is a tragic figure who can only hurt you. Not an easy choice, but an obvious one. If you ask me.

This was posted a while ago now. Since then I have seen signs of the man I loved coming back into life, like a ghost through mist... I am not with him again, but can imagine a future where we have found a better way to be together - not necessarily dependent, or romantic, but satisfying and real.

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truth
Clary, that's great news.
By the way, I would like our society to consider some kind of SUICIDE COUNSELING program wherein people who are contemplating suicide or have attempted it can be assigned to. This is so much better than punishing them for violation of some suicide law. It would give them some breathing space and perhaps some sophistication on the causes of pathological suicide. It would not be, as I conceive it, just an attempt to talk them out of it. That would beg the question of whether or not their decision to die is valid or not. It would provide them with the chance to reflect--with objective assistance-- carefully on whether it is reasonable for them to continue their life or to terminate it.

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Yes, you are right JLN.
As Portal Star said,
I'm fine with the law. The only reason it is there is so that people who attempt suicide (and fail) can be forced to get help. It's not like the government can actually prevent you from offing yourself.

Legality seems to be a funny way to deal with an ethical and psychological problem. I don't think it's illegal here in Europe any more. I suppose it became illegal because of the Christian church's disapproval, originally.

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Re: truth

Clary wrote:

JLNobody wrote:
Clary, havn't you answered your own question? During the last two years he is NOT the man you love(d). The man you loved is now a wonderful memory; the man you are dealing is a tragic figure who can only hurt you. Not an easy choice, but an obvious one. If you ask me.

This was posted a while ago now. Since then I have seen signs of the man I loved coming back into life, like a ghost through mist... I am not with him again, but can imagine a future where we have found a better way to be together - not necessarily dependent, or romantic, but satisfying and real.

And yesterday, he killed himself. Law appears to have nothing to do with it. It was this thread I originally joined A2K for, and the wordgames, so thank you everyone who contributed to my thoughts on this one.

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truth
Clarly, I know I can't share your grief, even though my mother and a close friend committed suicide. You are right, all our conceptual efforts appear as mere word games compared to the awesomeness of life and death. Have a wonderful future.

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Clarly. I can't put my feelings on what I have just read into words. All I can say is that my heart goes out to you. And I can promise that things will change, the wheel of life will keep turning, and the future is waiting for you. Grab it with both hands, because it is the most valuable posession any of us can have. Trust me... 3 years on from being mixed up in so much death, regret, sickness and pain, things move on.

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Thank you both for your understanding and kindness. I know things will move on, but it just seems such a waste - he was a larger-than-life character of huge energy and intellect, before. However, it was his decision and I honour it.

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Shallow eyes and bitter thoughts,
Heart as deep as earth,
The emotions running through their heads
Will never know their worth.

Sleeping minds and lonely souls
Bond now as once before.
As once both were united mind
Yet now resolve counts more.

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Oh Clary my heart goes out to you and I hold you in the light. We are here for you when you need to talk.

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Forgive me for not reading anything except the first comment :p
If it's a necessity to tell me. My question here, which I doubt has been answered so far:

Who deserves to live?
Name 1person who deserves life. I mean really, morally deserved it. If you were to give your life objectively, you would give it to that person(name yourself if you must, but argue why)

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My children are all good, moral, contributing human beings. As a mother I would give my life for any of them, but also because they will make a difference. That's all one can hope, I think - Gandhis, Gautama Buddhas and Christs are rarely amongst us.

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Clary, I think there are more Ghandis, Buddhas and Christs among us than we recognize. They just don't suffer from PR management. They are ordinary (which is not to say statistically normal) people like your children, perhaps.

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I myself agree with those who think that anyone has the right to stope his own life and to assisset
if he is in a suitable condithions those who want to put an end to thiere life
but this does not mean that we are morally committed to help some people when they are for example depressed or the same

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I've always liked the japanese ritual suicide and the context in which it took place. Their entire upbringing and view on life as a 'mere tool'.

But that's actual suicide, you were all talking about aiding and abetting. Wink

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If there is such a thing as a just, civilized society possible on this planet then one of the major considerations would be the unrestricted legalization of euthanasia. I can't imagine any more
senseless and cruel restriction to a human being who is suffering from any painful desease than, for
matters religious ,or what have you, than to not permit this person to end this suffering. The same applies to desire to end a life that is no longer considered to be worth living.
Is there really anyone still around that thinks otherwise, and thus remove this "one consolation
that sees us through many a dark night ?"

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Suicide....Should it be legal?

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