Suicide....Should it be legal?

Thanks Phoenix, Diane and others - yes, in a way I have done all I can. It's interesting that in earlier times I would probably have sought advice from an authority figure of some kind who would tell me what I should do, a priest, usually - someone who would take the mantle of guilt away, even if they gave onerous duties to perform. At least then I would be assured that my soul was progressing satisfactorily. No such comfort blanket nowadays.

My case is more complicated because my husband fell in love with another woman 2 yrs ago and half of his regret is that he let her go. This presumably absolves me from all sorts of guilt, even in the eyes of a priest! But life is always more complicated than the bare facts...

Anyway, thank you for telling me what all my friends are telling me. It is the Zeitgeist - do what is right for you and your own personal conscience.

I shall join a happier topic later; hope to see you all there!

Thanks Phoenix, Diane and others - yes, in a way I have done all I can. It's interesting that in earlier times I would probably have sought advice from an authority figure of some kind who would tell me what I should do, a priest, usually - someone who would take the mantle of guilt away, even if they gave onerous duties to perform. At least then I would be assured that my soul was progressing satisfactorily. No such comfort blanket nowadays.

My case is more complicated because my husband fell in love with another woman 2 yrs ago and half of his regret is that he let her go. This presumably absolves me from all sorts of guilt, even in the eyes of a priest! But life is always more complicated than the bare facts...

Anyway, thank you for telling me what all my friends are telling me. It is the Zeitgeist - do what is right for you and your own personal conscience.

I shall join a happier topic later; hope to see you all there!

Clary- I am very glad that you did not mention the other woman until after we had responded......it might have colored our perception of the situation.

It seems to me that now YOU need to learn why you put up with the emotional abuse that your husband foisted and is still foisting on you.

Money and family and unquenchable optimism!

truth
Money, family and optimism. Good, at least you know that you are subjecting yourself to such suffering and the reasons you are doing so.

I do. And he is MUCH unhappier than I am, for all the midlife crisis. Compassion comes into the equation too. And what about the high moral ground?

Clary- For a moment, try to step away from this. What if a friend told you:

Her husband fell in love with another woman.

He decided to leave the lover.

The husband now feels that his life is ruined, because he gave up this love.

He has become depressed, and has attempted suicide a couple of times.

He has had to be hospitalized.

Now your friend tells you that her husband is coming home, and she feels conflicted.

What would YOU say to your friend? Or, even if you wouldn't tell say anything, what would YOU think?

Yes, Phoenix, and I am definitely keeping myself sane and the man at arm's length - but are there any other takes on a philosophical level, except the modern relativist 'save yourself first' one? Just interested!

IMO, If the person was someone that I adored, and he had been reciprocal in his relationship to me, I would take care of him, to the best of my ability. The reason is that, because of our relationship, HIS happiness would be very important TO ME.

If there was little or no reciprocity in the relationship, if in fact the person had torn the relationship apart, I would have absolutely no compunction about walking away from him, with absolutely no guilt.

I wish it were that simple. We had 27 glory years, a dodgy one and then the last 2 bad. But can one throw away the 25? Legendary for our communication, our parenting, our general joie de vivre... this was no ordinary man. It's the tyranny of hormones and moodswings and chemicals - none of the last 2 years has he been the man I love(d).

truth
Clary, havn't you answered your own question? During the last two years he is NOT the man you love(d). The man you loved is now a wonderful memory; the man you are dealing with is a tragic figure who can only hurt you. Not an easy choice, but an obvious one. If you ask me.

truth
Clarly, you ask if anyone can suggest a non-modern, non-relativist solution to your problem. Why is that? A good or reasonable suggestion is either good or it is not, having nothing to do with whether or not it is a traditionalist or modernist one. Let me ask an indelicate question indelicately: Do you want a solution that will meet the value standards of traditionalist others ( relatives, friends, children), and yourself?

Clary- I think that J.L. has hit the nail right on the head.

OK. Today I have to go to the Family Team of psychiatrist, social worker and various others, and discuss whether there is 'any future in the marriage'. All I can say is that at the moment there is nothing and that I can't have him home, but if he has a change of heart - I must in all honesty say I would have him back. This puts the onus on him and his wanting to return. It's also inconvenient for the medicos, since the treatment is all free and there is an unspoken desire to get rid of people and free up beds. No dilemma there, really.

I was interested to find out if other people DID have clearcut guidelines -this whole thing was not an appeal for advice, really, since I and my kids have long since decided what to do for ourselves as well as for him. As I say, it's an interesting debate and I'm sorry I've personalised it so much that the ethical and rational aspects have been lost in the emotional and personal.

But thank you for your concern! You are kind and caring people

By leaving the decision up to him, you are allowing him to control your life. Is that what you really want?

No, it isn't like that, really it isn't. I would be gaining a lot if he changed in the way I want - but I don't think he will. I've put a lot of conditions onto his moving back, and the team were very supportive. He will have to get a place of his own. They also said that if there were risks (i e of suicide) then, risks there would be, that all lives have risk etc... which is an interesting viewpoint for health professionals and one I didn't think they would take.
I don't want to grow old alone, Phoenix, there are countless old women here who are sad and lonely. I'm not saying any marriage is better than none, but companionship has a value. I'm not that old yet so this isn't the overriding concern

The right to our own lives is the ultimate right. Having a right to something implies that freedom is not pure. We have a right to choiceof religion or none at all. We have a right to taking or preserving our own lives.

So!!! The ultimate question remains. Do I have the right?

Well, I am planning on it. On several circumstances.

The big, what if.

If. In a several years, the three I am living for dies, my mother, father, and my loving dog. All in the 5 year period, I will absolutly put a shotgun under my chin and scatter the contents of my schull, my brains, across the room I will committ suicide in. It's a blatent statment, and is also fact.
Now the question is, Just what can you do about it?
Nothing. NADA. Ziltch.

OK, but the argument against that is change... if circumstances change, whether it be your state of mind, or your external circumstances, you may change in your determination. Just because at a certain time you wish to end it all, wouldn't it be better to wait and see?
In the case of my husband (see November posts) he is now feeling he is less suicidal, willing to move forward. It would have been so devastating to his family if he'd killed himself from his deeply depressed state because we all believed he would in the end get over it. But your case, Hector, is different. Unless you get someone else in your life, you will be acting logically if those three are the only things you live for. It is a big if, though. Does one live for other people? And if so, that would mean that if suicide was bad for the others, it shouldn't be done. So in a lot of ways, you are arguing against suicide being legal (and therefore accessible to those nonAmericans who don't have guns)

Now, where does it cross anyone's mind that suicide is illegal? It would be in vain to even say, "John Doe will be sentenced to life in jail for suicide." There is no way to prevent it. It doesn't matter if it is found in the law books.