Suicide....Should it be legal?

BlueMonkey wrote:

As for keeping someone from killing them self as being selfish to demand them to stay and live in pain well I say that one is the lesser. Killing one self is the wimp way out of a situation. It is a weakness of character.

Compared with the wimping out and weakness of character of people who suck up to gods that may or may not exist -- a person who decides the end is inevitable and pain can be relieved by hastening that end -- is a pillar of strength.

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But when it comes to murder, even of ones self, if someone stops them from doing it is not selfish.

That is a rather self-serving assessment -- and, in my opinion, wrongheaded.

And I suspect it is little more than a part of that sucking up process I mentioned earlier.

I truly hope you never face the kind of situation where suicide might be contemplated, but if you ever do, I expect you will see this issue from a slightly more illuminated, much less judgemental perspective.

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"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
Albert Camus
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Frank,

It is not weak minded to believe there is a higher power. I want to please God. Just like a child wants to please their parents.

I have been in the situation with suicide, more than once. The reason I never do it is because it is murder, God does not approve and I would not steal myself from the people I love and who love me.

I don't know if you fail to realize that I never said if someone is in pain (physical) I can understand why they would want to die. And I am talking about pain of disease or a never ending coma.

Just a warning, if you want to go into this mud sling thing we can. When I said weakness of mind it is true. It is a weakness of the mind. It does not take a strong person to give up. Weakness of the mind to kill ones self cannot be compared to believing in a God. Maybe you made a mistake you connecting the two. And if you don't think you did then that will be your mistake in future post. But I am stating from experience that it is a weakness of mind. I don't know why you would take offense to that other then you went through it and you don't think you have a weakness of the mind, or someone you love, but it is. Otherwise no one would ever do it.

The BlueMonkey is open to discussion of many subjects but never with people who assume they are smarter on merit of age or what they think is wisdom. Be it that is you be warned that I do not take lightly being put down for thinking the way I do.

Just so people know - because many like to read into my post and tell me how I am emotionally, I am not mad, yet. I am not ruffled, I am irritated but that will subside in a few seconds.

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No, Terry, it wouldn't. I, by virtue of the fact that I'm me, have the right to control what happens to my body. Other people don't.

I don't take US law as proof of my inalienable rights, I take it as proof of my legal rights. And as long as I have an inalianable right and a legal right to something, I think I'll take advantage of it if I so choose. My problem with anti-suicide laws is not so much that they are morally wrong as it is that they are contradictory to the legal rights that we are already guaranteed.

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BlueMonkey wrote:

Frank,

It is not weak minded to believe there is a higher power. I want to please God. Just like a child wants to please their parents.

I have been in the situation with suicide, more than once. The reason I never do it is because it is murder, God does not approve and I would not steal myself from the people I love and who love me.

I don't know if you fail to realize that I never said if someone is in pain (physical) I can understand why they would want to die. And I am talking about pain of disease or a never ending coma.

Just a warning, if you want to go into this mud sling thing we can. When I said weakness of mind it is true. It is a weakness of the mind. It does not take a strong person to give up. Weakness of the mind to kill ones self cannot be compared to believing in a God. Maybe you made a mistake you connecting the two. And if you don't think you did then that will be your mistake in future post. But I am stating from experience that it is a weakness of mind. I don't know why you would take offense to that other then you went through it and you don't think you have a weakness of the mind, or someone you love, but it is. Otherwise no one would ever do it.

The BlueMonkey is open to discussion of many subjects but never with people who assume they are smarter on merit of age or what they think is wisdom. Be it that is you be warned that I do not take lightly being put down for thinking the way I do.

Just so people know - because many like to read into my post and tell me how I am emotionally, I am not mad, yet. I am not ruffled, I am irritated but that will subside in a few seconds.

Lighten the **** up.

I don't take you anywhere near seriously enough to be bothered by these idiotic warnings you seem to deem appropriate.

AND LET ME RESTATE THAT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, IT TAKES ONE HELL OF A LOT MORE WEAKNESS OF MIND TO SPOUT THAT CRAP ABOUT PLEASING ZEUS THAN IT DOES TO END PAIN IN A SUICIDE.

Now, if that warning label bullshit means anything, let me have your best shot.

What are you going to use -- a pea shooter?

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LOL pea shooter. LOL that is funny. Considering I don't own one.

People who use four letter words are the ones who need to lighten up. I was not mad. But it seems to me you got your depends in a twist and need them to be straighten out. I for one will not do it. I touch old things.

Oh and Zeus is the Greek/Roman whatever god. Not mine. Nice name though.

And maybe you should put your signature to good thought, you don't know me so what you don't know is displayed as a weakness. Don't show your weakness.

You poor lost soul. It is okay to be lost. It is just the fact that you may never be found that should be scary.

May you lighten up and refrain from using words that subtract for IQ points I had you penned for. I did think you were smart until this reply post came along. Oh well can't be right about everything.

BlueMonkey does not know everything, I do know myself and for you to tell me that I don't know what is and isn't a weakness is something along the line of not smart. I've been through it and it just makes you so unhappy that I have. You thought you got me down with saying I don't know what I am talking about if I have not been through it, well I have.

Oh and it must have made you mad the whole statement about you going through it. It is okay, not everyone is strong.

I don't use pea shooters because the BlueMonkey does not like peas.

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BlueMonkey wrote:

BlueMonkey does not know everything....

I don't use pea shooters because the BlueMonkey does not like peas.

If there is anything on the planet more pompous, arrogant, or ludicrous than referring to one's self in the third person, I've not encountered it. I'd suggest, however, that it is an affectation that growing up will eventually cure.

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People who use four letter words are the ones who need to lighten up. I was not mad. But it seems to me you got your depends in a twist and need them to be straighten out. I for one will not do it. I touch old things.

Well at some point you should learn to write correctly. If you had written, "I DON'T touch old things" that might have made some small amount of sense even if it would be a rather immature attempt at a put-down. But as it is, your mangled paragraph becomes just another sign of careless composition.

BTW, until you mentioned the age difference, I had no idea you were a child. Thanks for mentioning it. I guess I'll have to be more careful with my language. Don't want you running to Mom and Dad about me.

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Oh and Zeus is the Greek/Roman whatever god. Not mine. Nice name though.

Another example of poor composition skills. You could simply have looked up the name and found that Zeus was the top Greek god. Jupiter was his Roman counterpart -- although the Romans, being Roman, were perfectly willing to worship Zeus also.

You know how it is with people who worship gods. All they are interested in is sucking up to the gods -- the name really doesn't matter all that much -- except to Christians who go through all sorts of nonsense about what to call the god of the Bible and his incarnated personality.

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And maybe you should put your signature to good thought, you don't know me so what you don't know is displayed as a weakness. Don't show your weakness.

Don't worry about my weakness. I have them well under control. Pay some attention to sentence construction, grammar and syntax. That paragraph looks like it would get an "F" in the fifth grade.

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You poor lost soul. It is okay to be lost. It is just the fact that you may never be found that should be scary.

May you lighten up and refrain from using words that subtract for IQ points I had you penned for. I did think you were smart until this reply post came along. Oh well can't be right about everything.

I worry about your estimate of my IQ like I worry about Rush Limbaugh's considerations about my weight and ability to stay away from addictive behavior.

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I do know myself and for you to tell me that I don't know what is and isn't a weakness is something along the line of not smart. I've been through it and it just makes you so unhappy that I have. You thought you got me down with saying I don't know what I am talking about if I have not been through it, well I have.

If you want to make this thought comprehensible, get someone to help you rewrite it. I'd respond, but I have no idea of what you were trying to communicate.

You are not mentally handicapped in any way, are you?

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Sorry everyone i have been away and unable to access a computer

and i come back and find the room in turmoil

the first thing that i noticed is barooom shook things up with a religious argument

To Barooooom and others that think that way. Religion just doesnt work in situations like this. You cant give God credit for every good thing and none of the bad. You cant say God sets a path, but oh no wait he didnt make you do THAT, he gave you the CHOICE to do that. Bringing religion in defeats the purpose of a debate, because in a basic sense you can make up rules. Every play a agame when you were younger and the other kids kept changing the rules so you cant win? well thats basically what your doing, changing the rules so no one else can win by bringing in theis all-powerful all-knowing perfect being and saying everything has a purpose whether we understand it or not. that accomplishes nothing. it only pisses people who are trying to "play by the rules" off

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Dys quotes Camus and I agree. Just in case any one scrolled by in a rush to judgment I thought it deserved re-posting

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
Albert Camus

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Dys quotes Camus and I agree. Just in case any one scrolled by in a rush to judgment I thought it deserved re-posting

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
Albert Camus

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[quote="Frank Apisa]

If there is anything on the planet more pompous, arrogant, or ludicrous than referring to one's self in the third person, I've not encountered it. I'd suggest, however, that it is an affectation that growing up will eventually cure.

BTW, until you mentioned the age difference, I had no idea you were a child. Thanks for mentioning it. I guess I'll have to be more careful with my language. Don't want you running to Mom and Dad about me.

I worry about your estimate of my IQ like I worry about Rush Limbaugh's considerations about my weight and ability to stay away from addictive behavior.

You are not mentally handicapped in any way, are you?[/quote]

arrogant? Nope. Growing up? Nope. Neverland is quite the place. You can say whatever you want. People who have to use those words lack the intelligence to actually refrain from doing so. It is kind of a handicap, if you will. Mom and Dad? If you only knew. I don't know your IQ and did not want you worrying about what I was thinking about your IQ. But if it does worry you, oh so much, then just ask. I can give an answer. And if I was mentally handicapped what would you do? Probably make fun of that too. It is okay you didn't say anything to me that I did not already know. But then again you probably chalk full of that kind of information.

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I do know myself and for you to tell me that I don't know what is and isn't a weakness is something along the line of not smart. I've been through it and it just makes you so unhappy that I have. You thought you got me down with saying I don't know what I am talking about if I have not been through it, well I have.

Lets brake this down for you. I state that I do know my self and I don't need you telling me about suicide and whether or not I know it. I state that it makes you very unhappy that I have been through it. Why? Because you were hoping I never had the experience of doing so. But I have. I would have to agree with you that it was a little cryptic but it just might be your eyes. Check them out they might have fogged over. It is okay it happens to the best of us.

Oh and just for you and your caring attitude of how I am so self centered--The BlueMonkey's opinion is fact, because I have lived through it and know. It is you who probably have no experience with it, or do you? It is unfortunate that you had to start this. You may die before it is done.

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Okay, BlueMonkey -- we'll continue this barb trading bullshiit for a bit longer:

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People who have to use those words lack the intelligence to actually refrain from doing so.

A suggestion, BlueMonkey, if I may.

If you are going to continue to comment on my intelligence, I think it would be prudent for you to be more careful with your postings.

For instance:

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But then again you probably chalk full of that kind of information.

You probably meant "chock-full."

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Lets brake this down for you.

You probably meant "break" this down -- and I'm sure you meant to write "Let's" , which is a contraction of let us and requires an apostrophe.

My point, BlueMonkey, is that if you are going to comment on the intelligence of other people, you ought really to take into consideration your own limited intelligence. Okay?

Now -- you seem to have a cryptic message of some kind hidden in those rambling posts of yours -- and if you would like to take the time to actually say whatever the hell it is you are almost saying, I, for one, would be delighted to hear it. I also would be willing to respond.

I would suggest, however, that we get away from trading barbs -- and actually discuss something of substance.

Why not give it a try?

Who knows.

We might have a reasonable discussion.

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It is true I am not the best speller and sometimes, as you pointed out, I use the wrong word. English has such a way of tricking me. More one way of spelling a word that sounds the same. Confusion aside.

I understand that a person would want to commit suicide if they are pain dealing with sickness. But pain from emotional distress I do not understand. You may solve your pain by killing yourself but in the process you are causing pain for who ever loved you.
And that is what kept me from doing it. Knowing that if I did it people would be hurt and that is not what I want to do.

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truth
Regarding the original question, I think that any serious attempt at suicide should be considered a capital crime.

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edgar does not like suicide or even gods, but he believes that if some person is determined to go through with either, he should stand out of the way.

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Couple of things, BlueMonkey:

1) My guess is that a majority of people participating in A2K have considered suicide at some point.

2) My guess is that a majority of people participating in life here on planet Earth -- have, at some point,, considered suicide.

3) I have considered suicide myself.

4) My guess is that the vast majority of "suicide attempts"-- are not suicide attempts at all -- but are instead, a cry for help. A person who truly wants to end his/her life -- will!

5) All of this is said with a "you ain't alone, my friend" lurking behind every word. Don't be despondent -- and don't think there is anything wrong with you for thinking some of the thoughts you are thinking.

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I understand that a person would want to commit suicide if they are pain dealing with sickness. But pain from emotional distress I do not understand.

It is not necessary for you to "understand" it in order for you to treat it with a little less contempt than you are.

Apparently you are a young man.

Great! There is nothing wrong with youth that a bit of aging can't cure.

But being a young person MAY mean that you have not yet had the life experiences necessary to fully appreciate the kinds of things that go into desparate acts -- that you have not yet had the life experiences necessary to give meaningful advise on these issues.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you on the point you've made here.

I certainly hope that any person contemplating suicide because of emotional distress will seek out competent mental health help BEFORE acting on the impulse.

And if you have any residual feelings in that direction -- I think everyone in A2K would counsel you to seek the kind of advice and help only a professional can offer. (Frankly, it doesn't sound to me that you are in that position. It sounds as though you have worked your way through whatever difficulties caused you to consider such a radical course.

In any case, BlueMonkey, your observation...

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You may solve your pain by killing yourself but in the process you are causing pain for who ever loved you.

...is well taken.

None of us are truly alone in this world -- and if consideration of others is what gets us past these kinds of things -- so much the better.

In summary, DAMN NEAR EVERYONE has felt the pangs and helplessness of despondency. Contemplation of suicide as "an easy way out" is very, very, very common.

Don't dwell on it.

Live your life as best you can and focus as much as possible on the good things. And if you are convinced there are no good things -- pretend there are.

Above all, keep on tickin'.

You'll be surprised some day at just how fast all this living passes by.

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edgarblythe wrote:

edgar does not like suicide or even gods, but he believes that if some person is determined to go through with either, he should stand out of the way.

See what you started, BlueMonkey. This is all your fault. :wink:

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Good one JLN. Beside who can make the decision but the individual. Maybe life for some people is not the same as it is for other and death is the better alternative.

That of course assumes we are alive in the first place and exist in the world we think we do.

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I try to keep the third person down to one sentence. Mainly the last sentence.

Frank the incite was really nice and appreciative.

And just for fun: the BlueMonkey is now in appreciative mode.

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Suicide....Should it be legal?

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