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Was Hitler good for the World in any way?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 08:58 am
BillW wrote:
- this would be a major cause of his problems.


As i have maintained from the beginning of this thread, the major cause of his problems was stupidity. Hitler was one of history's greatest gutter politicians. However, whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. His success in street politics, in co-opting the programs of Ernst Rohm and the Brown Shirts, in pushing and shoving aside his political competitors to obtain an electoral plurality which resulted in his appointment as Chancellor, and in his successful purge of Rohm and the Brown Shirt leadership, and in the re-occupation of the Rhineland--all lead him to rate his abilities far higher than was warranted. The proof of this is in the military idiocy he perpetrated after 1940, which proved disasterous for the German nation.

Adolf was a putz.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 09:02 am
BillW wrote:
Thanks Joe, seems we were going in the same direction Wink

All roads of truth lead to Cecil Adams.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 09:07 am
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
By the way, I have to add this book of Raul Hilberg is interesting to read. It also has chapters concerning mixed marriages (Jews with non-Jews) and their fate during WW II, and so-called Christian-Jews - Jews who had converted to Christianity - and their fate. It is believed there were up to 100,000 Jews married with Gentiles in occupied Europe. The number of Christian-Jews was at least 150,000, but probably more, in occupied Europe.


It must have been much higher: according to Bryan Mark Rigg (in 'Hitler's Jewish Soldiers', 2002, [will be published as paperback 9/2004]) there have been perhaps as many as 150,000 "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge) -including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals - serving as military men in Nazi Germany.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 09:08 am
Setanta, I don't think the views are divergent but convergent Smile
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 09:57 am
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
cavfancier wrote:
If you are and Rick are trying to imply that Hitler actually harbored a secret love for Jews because of these vague, non-cited tales, and therefore should be thought of in a better light than he is currently, that is way off base.

Rolling Eyes I'm not trying to imply ANYTHING cavfancier. I'm not denying Hitler hated Jews. The only thing I wanted to 'add' is that there must have been a turning point in Hitler's life in his opinion concerning Jews. That's what I read. Having the book 'Perpetrators Victims Bystanders: the Jewish Catastrophe, 1933 - 1945' by Raul Hilberg in front of me, I quote that 'Hitler did not recognize the Jews of Linz; it was not until in Vienna he got a fervent hate against Jews, seeing them as Marxists and a seperate part of the German nation'. I apologize for my inaccurate timeline by claiming Hitler had Jewish friends during his time as an artist; I was wrong there. My apologies. But please, do not try to make premature conclusions on my thinking.


It's all good. My apologies too, for jumping to a conclusion. It just wasn't clear to me what the point of your post was. :wink: I understand now.
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Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 10:46 am
while i was in argentina, my israeli girlfriend said, while we were in a bookshop oneday and we saw a book called 'hitlers father', that hitlers dad was a jew and that he was an illegitimate child... ie that his father had an affair with one of the servants and this produced old adolf himself..and that hitlers dad used to beat him and lock him in his room and other generally bad things to poor little adolf and my girlfriend also said that hitler said that every time he knew he had had a jew killed it was like killing his own father ie getting his revenge on dad for being mistreated
i dont know if this has any truth in it but im just passing on what she told me
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 02:30 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
It must have been much higher: according to Bryan Mark Rigg (in 'Hitler's Jewish Soldiers', 2002, [will be published as paperback 9/2004]) there have been perhaps as many as 150,000 "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge) -including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals - serving as military men in Nazi Germany.

'Mischlinge' were half-Jews: persons whose father or mother were Jewish, or who's grandparents from one side (if I recall it correctly) were Jewish. In Hitler's ideology, there was no difference in religion. This could mean that somebody who had both Christian parents, but who had one parent who was Jewish according to the Nazi racial laws, was a Mischling. I do not doubt of the fact that there were up to 150,000 "partial-Jews" in the Nazi army. As Raul Hilberg says the numbers are this: 'concerning Christian-Jews, there were 62,000 of them in Great-Hungary in 1941; Germany had 40,000 in 1933; Austria had approximately 25,000 Christian-Jews at the time of the Anschluss in 1938; Bohemia & Morovia had 10,000 in 1939; Romania had 5,000 in 1942; the Netherlands had somewhat more than 2,500 in 1942; Slovakia had 2,000 in 1939. Italia and Poland had several thousands Christian-Jews.' Hilberg acknowledges mixed marriages were hard to define. In Nazi-Germany it was based on origin; in the Soviet-Union it was based on nationality ('Jewish' was a nationality); in other countries it was religion. The YIVO Annual of Jewish Social Science (1953) believed there were 'up to 100,000 mixed marriages in Nazi-occupied Europe'.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 02:54 pm
Quote:
Contrary to conventional views, Rigg reveals that a startlingly large number of German military men were classified by the Nazis as Jews or "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge), in the wake of racial laws first enacted in the mid-1930s. Rigg demonstrates that the actual number was much higher than previously thought--perhaps as many as 150,000 men, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals.

As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers.
source: University of Kansas Press
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 03:51 pm
I'm fed up with this Hitler stuff. Can't we discuss someone else for a change?
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 03:54 pm
Cool
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ReX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 04:21 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I'm fed up with this Hitler stuff. Can't we discuss someone else for a change?


Not in this topic :p

But agreed, it's about time to stop it Smile

I'd just like to add my surprise for Hitler being potentially jewish, he looked so much like the arian model to me. Tall, muscular, blond and so on. (Anybody know the joke from Family Guy where the mother states how all problems begin with bad self image and we see hitler in the gym vs a bodybuilder jew with two girls surrounding him Very Happy That always cracks me up)

Furthermore, on a more personal note, but pay no attention to it: I for a long time suspected Hitler didn't really _hate_ jews, he just used them for propaganda and support for the antisemitic europe (and for a long time he was also quite popular in the USA (for it (?)). But his attraction for the occult and his 'going mental' near the end does add to the doubtful nature of such a statement.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 04:24 pm
He did have the Bush family convinced - is there a formula here ----> Hitler, Mussolini, bin Laden, House of Faud, Hussein ----> hmmmmmmmm!
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2004 02:06 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Contrary to conventional views, Rigg reveals that a startlingly large number of German military men were classified by the Nazis as Jews or "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge), in the wake of racial laws first enacted in the mid-1930s. Rigg demonstrates that the actual number was much higher than previously thought--perhaps as many as 150,000 men, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals.

As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers.

source: University of Kansas Press

Sounds like an interesting book Walter. Thanks for the link.
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buff10825
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:25 am
Like it or not.
Love me, hate me, like it or not but the world would be a much better place today had Hitler won that war. We wouldn't have these problems we have today in this world if the Third Reich had it their way. Ultimately, the world would have been better off. I think that mostly everyone (minorities aside for obvious reasons) would agree with what I write but none would have the guts to support it. You have to be "politically correct" these days you know. Rick.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:30 am
Shocked
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 10:32 am
Easy Walter, there's no sign over the door which reads: "No crackpots."
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Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 11:58 am
youll find actually there are many silent millions who share the 'crackpots' belief.....
it takes all sorts to make this world the wonderful place it is Wink
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steissd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 12:24 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
It must have been much higher: according to Bryan Mark Rigg (in 'Hitler's Jewish Soldiers', 2002, [will be published as paperback 9/2004]) there have been perhaps as many as 150,000 "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge) -including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals - serving as military men in Nazi Germany.

I heard some story (I have no clue whether it is true) regading the Luftwaffe Field Marshal Erich Milch that was allegedly suspicious in having some Jewish ancestors. Once the SS-Reichsfuehrer Heinrich Himmler tried to attract attention of Reichsmarschal Hermann W. Goering to this problem. And Mr. Goering replied that in Luftwaffe he decided about who was a Jew, and who was not.
In Israel attribution to the Jewish people is in the rabbis' competence. So, Israelis that are familiar with this story made conclusions that Mr. Goering had declared himself a chief rabbi of the German Air Force...
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Col Man
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 12:29 pm
Smile its nice to see a bit of humour on such a dark topic Wink
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2004 12:35 pm
Your story is not at mentioned in Bryan Mark Rigg's book.

I can't foolow the logic of your second phrase, since - if ever Göring said such - he did it re the Nazi law.

(It's Erhard Milch, btw. and Himmler acted as Prussian Prime Minister.)
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