13
   

British Single Mom gets 100,000 pounds a year to live in mansion.

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 11:58 am
@Irishk,
I'm not so sure I agree, Irishk. When Bush favored us taxpayers with a $600.00 tax bonus, I disagreed with the principle and took the money. Obama has Social Security Admin send a bunch of us $250.00 last year. Again, I disagreed and took the money.

In all cases, it seems to me it's the respective governments that need to be examined, not the beneficiaries.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:03 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

ebrown p wrote:
If this thread had been titled "Why do Brits live in Britain?", we could have a rational discussion on the merits of the case. I am afraid without the race-baiting part of this thread, we would probably all be in agreement that a British single mom shouldn't be getting a 100,000 pounds a year to live in a mansion. But, that wouldn't make for a very interesting discussion.


That last sentence is very revelatory--Brown isn't interested in the discussion unless he can rant about immigration and racism.


that's certainly not how I read it on the original thread.

I understood Lovejoy's intention on his thread much as ebrown p did - Lovejoy wanted to complain about immigrants of colour. Without the single mother being an immigrant , Lovejoy had no interest in the topic. S/he/it backed away right quick.

ebrown p offered to start a new discussion on the same topic, but without the background/race of the single mother being the issue. He did so, and without people climbing in here to holler at him about all sorts of irrelevant things, it's a bit of a dud thread. He was right in his view of the original thread poster.



I had to admit I agreed with ebrown p.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:07 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
This woman is not an immigrant. The whole point of this thread was to discuss her as a British citizen getting a public benefit.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:08 pm
Well, a little research shows that although members of the Commonwealth of Nations are British subjects, they are no longer automatically British citizens since the 1971 Act--so i was wrong about that. Under the provisions of the 1981 Act, someone born in the United Kingdom only becomes a British citizen if one of their parents is a British citizen, or is settled there (i.e., a landed immigrant with a residency permit).

You can read about British citizenship at this Home Office web site.

So what information do you have Brown that makes you so certain that this woman is a British citizen. I don't deny, but i have no reason to believe it, either, without evidence.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:09 pm
@roger,
You're right, of course. Can you imagine the bureaucratic red tape that would have ensued had you tried to send that money back?

Anyway, this woman, along with a dozen or so others found a loophole in the system and used it to their advantage. No crime was committed, but the criticism is understandable.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:10 pm
@ehBeth,
Lovejoy may well be a racist, although that is not established. It is also not established that this woman is a British citizen--Brown saying so doesn't make it so. If in fact, she is not, than Lovejoy's complaint has considerably more merit.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:15 pm
@Setanta,
I looked at some of the primary sources yesterday.

Lovejoy said s/he/it didn't need to.

ebrown p was right - at least according to what I could find yesterday.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:16 pm
@Setanta,
If Lovejoy had any issue with the woman other than his/her/its belief that the woman was an immigrant, s/he/it'd be on this thread.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:23 pm
Nowhere in the article that Brown linked does it state that this woman was born in London. However, it states that she is 34 years of age, so if she was born in England before January 1, 1983, according to the Home Office web site which i linked she is, in the words of that site "almost certainly a British citizen." So i would ask Brown to provide his source for the claim that she was born in London, and not the child of diplomatic staff with diplomatic immunity--which would establish that she is a British citizen. (The rules on citizenship by birth changed under the 1981 Citizenship Act, which was effective January 1, 1983.)
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:24 pm
@ehBeth,
Although a compelling argument, it is not axiomatically true. It is entirely possible that Lovejoy had no interest in talking to someone calling him or her a racist.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:25 pm
@Setanta,
There are a lot of articles on this story. She was born in London.

There is nothing in the original article that says she (or the other people getting similar benefits) is an immigrant.

Lovejoy made that up all by him/her/itself based on her photo and name.

Shame on Lovejoy and anyone who falls for that cr*p line.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:30 pm
@ehBeth,
The news coverage (generally) is about the council rules.

Quote:
Essma Marjan was born and lives in London. After the birth of her sixth child, by council rules she was automatically entitled to a five bed-roomed house.

Read more: http://www.economicvoice.com/the-uk-benefits-system-is-broken/5006821#ixzz0forBQgdO


I can't find any coverage indicating she is an immigrant - other than Lovejoy posting that at A2K. Whole cloth.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:41 pm
OK, i'll accept that. And shame on Brown for calling anyone who complains about immigrants a racist.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:46 pm
@Setanta,
I will agree that not everyone who complains about immigrants is a racist.

Lovejoy will not be getting that exclusion from me.

Too bad really. S/he/it shares its username with one of my favourite fictional characters.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:57 pm
@ehBeth,
I maintain my position that Lovejoy's thread is not evidence that he or she is a racist. As simply a matter of detail, if this woman is of Arabic descent, then she's "white." If she is of Iranian descent, she's not only "white," she's Aryan. So that thread does not prove that Lovejoy is a racist.

My objection is that Brown is too quick to get all hysterical and start calling people racists. I've had no patience with that bullshit of his since he as much as accused me of being a racist because i disagreed with him.
ebrown p
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:00 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
And shame on Brown for calling anyone who complains about immigrants a racist.


This is demonstrably untrue. I have had many arguments on Able2Know with MysteryMan on the topic. I have disagreed with him, I have never called him a racist or accused him of being motivated by racism. On the other hand, when CJHSA was with us, I was happy to call him a racist, and I believe I was justified in doing so.

I have never claimed that everyone who complains about immigrants a racist. There are people who are against immigrants who are not racists-- and I have said this in the past.

I am claiming that a number of people who complain about immigrants are racists. If you would like to argue this point, we could start another thread.

What prompted this thread is the fact that LoveJoy turned a story about a woman who is not an immigrant, but who happens to be brown-skinned and muslim, into a rant about immigrants.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:02 pm
@Setanta,
We will have to agree to disagree on the majority of that post.

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:03 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

This woman is not an immigrant.............. a British citizen ....


That's a lie, Mr Brown-Munoz, and you know it's a lie - as was pointed out to you already on the original thread:
http://able2know.org/topic/141408-2#post-3909652
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:04 pm
@High Seas,
Tea, you are wrong.

The only person (other than you) who thinks the woman is an immigrant is Lovejoy. S/he/it made it up.
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:07 pm
@ebrown p,
"Happens to be brown-skinned ? ! ? ! ?"

That makes Lovejoy a racist? What a load of horseshit. To repeat myself, if she is of Arabic descent, she is white. If she is of Persian descent, she is not only white, she is Aryan. So, if a woman from Norway goes out and suns herself until her skin gets to be a crispy brown, anyone who is "white" who doesn't like her is automatically a racist? Jeeze, you're stupid.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/profile/nepal/images/trek23-nepal.gif

The women in the picture above are Indo-Aryans from Nepal. They are ethnically much more closely related to Europeans than they are to anyone else in Asia who are not of Indo-Aryan (or Indo-Iranian, if you prefer) descent. Your seeming criterion of having "brown" skin is just another example of how idiotic your ideas are. You are one of the most ill-informed ranters at this site.

 

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