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Mon 8 Feb, 2010 07:54 am
But take a look at the context below, it isn't. The title tells us that a beer a day could keep brittle bones at possibly best heathy condition. My English-Chinese dictionaries, however, tells me that "at bay" means "in dangerous condition".
Context:
Ale is good, make no bones about it
A beer a day could keep brittle bones at bay. That's because beer is rich in silicon, an element that has been linked to bone health. But what type of beer should you drink?
No, in this case the use of "at bay" simply means that something is being prevented. Particularly, in this case, it is alleged that brittle bones may be prevented.
The term "at bay"refers to when ships would be kept in the bay and not allowed to berth. This could be done for several reasons, the plague, payment of taxes, etc....so "at bay" means to be kept at a safe distance.
My understanding of "at bay" is meaning an animal cornered by a pack of hunting dogs. I don't think the nautical reference is correct.
Setanta is correct about its modern usage, however. "At bay" means something kept away or prevented from happening.
@DrewDad,
I liked both ways, so I had to
look it up somewhere.
Quote:Keep at bay - keep someone or something at a safe distance
Several sources cite the bay tree as the origin of this expression, giving the significance the ancients held in the protective powers of this plant. It has also been said that the bay laurel was turned to as a remedy at the time of the Great Plague of London. Though these sources have some basis in fact, France is the most likely place of origin. Abai is an Old French word meaning 'barking of hounds in a pack'. The English word baying, as of hunting hounds, shares this root. There are a number of Old French idioms connected with stag hunting which come from this same source, for example rendre les abois and être aux abois. They are used when a hunted stag tires in the chase and turns to face the pursuing hounds. At this point the stag is both at bay itself and also holds the dogs at bay - precisely the senses of the English phrase. The English expression has had several conventional forms under the influence of translations from the French: at abay, at a bay and today at bay.
I am far more familiar with nautical terms than old english. Perhaps the term came from old english into nautical use ? At least the majority agree it means to keep at a safe distance (in order to prevent)...yes ???
There's a whole load of piffle been written here.
@McTag,
Does that include your piffle ? If that is the extent of your ability to contribute why bother ? Someone asked a question..what is your answer ?
@Ionus,
Yes, sorry. I've not looked this up in a reliable source, but I remember the famous painting "Stag at Bay" which is of a hunted stag, cornered and facing the houds.
Nothing to do with embayed ships.
So to "keep something at bay" simply means to fend it off...for as long as possible.
@McTag,
That's often the case when it comes to the history of words, McTag, loads of piffle and sometimes much worse.
Whether Ionus's story has any veracity or not, it is plausible and sensible.
Quote:bay (3) Look up bay at Dictionary.com
"howl of a hound" (especially when hunting), c.1300, from O.Fr. bayer, from PIE base *bai- echoic of howling (cf. Gk. bauzein, L. baubari "to bark," Eng. bow-wow; cf. also bawl). Noun meaning "cornering of a hunted animal" is also 14c. At bay (1640s) is from special sense of "chorus raised by hounds in conflict with quarry," and reflects the former more widespread use of at.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bay
"at bay" is being pursued but not yet caught or killed
When hunting dogs pick up a scent they begin to bay. Whether "at bay" refers to the chase or only the baying when the quarry is cornered is hard to say.
@parados,
Quote:"at bay" is being pursued but not yet caught or killed
Does it actually hold this meaning for you, Parados? Have you ever used
at bay in this sense? I have to admit that it's a new one on me.
It seems likely to me that the phrase is linked to the sound the hounds make.
Maybe they make a different sound when they have run their quarry down. (so the huntsman knows by the sound, before he gets there, of the status of the chase.)
Hunting with hounds is illegal here now, so this is dangerous information to have. (smiley face here, winking)
@McTag,
Just for fun, McTag, I ran your posting thru the Grammar Checker at the link that was at the bottom of the page. It raised 5 alerts, two of them for grammar, interestingly, the same grammar alerts that it raised for a quick paragraph that I typed in.
I can't tell you precisely what they were 'cause you had to "upgrade" which equals $19.95 for a month. But I can tell you that they said you made a pronoun agreement error and you also got a passive voice alert.
Who ya gonna call to get rid of the ghosts of Strunk & White?
$19.95 ... hardly worth it to have some idiots point out prescriptive nonsense. Robert could just refer folks to the peeves threads for half or quarter of that.
@JTT,
Good points, as usual JTT.
Note that missing comma there.
Run some Hemmingway thru, see what results you get.
I taught him all he new.
@ehBeth,
If you keep someone or something at bay, you maintain a safe distance from them.
I'd say that there is more to it than that. Keeping a safe distance from a grizzly bear won't necessarily keep it at bay. All prey animals know that keeping a safe distance from predators won't keep them at bay.
There is an element of strength, coercion, a shift of power, either fleeting or more long lasting, etc. that figures in to
at bay.
This time, it gives a list of things it checks for. It's checking for "squinting modifiers". I thought that I might have misread that as it flashed by, but no, in an effort to convince me just how thorough it is, it flashed it a few more times; "squinting modifiers", maybe they thought they'd throw that one in to keep everyone on their toes.
The website: "Hey, this person has checked three paragraphs, I can feel the money rollin' in soon, let's flash all the stuff we check for, sure as ****, they'll buy our upgrade."
It also checks for all the old bugbears; split infinitives, preps at the end, conjuncs at the start, sequence of tenses, dangling modifiers, double negatives, use of the subjunctive, how often you change your underwear as opposed to just turning it inside out, ...
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