Atheism

@livinglava,

IDK, but it might, in Biblical interpretations, be that we are but individual algorithms running in the mind of God.
We could be judged at the end by how good we were at achieving the desired result.

The desired result is the question.

****, I didn’t mean for that to sound that Zen.

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@Leadfoot,

Take "good" out of algorithms as if there were free will on which algorithms are running around.
The best algorithm is always the fastest one to complete a task such that it's more energy-efficient.
Being "bad" is just being inefficient, either for yourself society or nature at large. And even then you get a Darwin award and get put out of the equation sooner rather than later. That is your punishment and your burden since you didn't have any free will in choosing to be born with what you got.

The immediate question you should ask me now is why then there are worse algorithms running around. What is the purpose of less efficient algorithms still persisting?
Well, bottom line Reality as a narrative wouldn't be much interesting if every step of the way was made the most efficient one regarding the final Universal or Multiversal Wave function. Less efficient people or less efficient species have the burden of making others enjoy the "winning game". They are Martyrs...so you see, it is a narrative, Nature that is.
A perfectly balanced universe would be empty and made of perfectly evenly distributed energy, very boring. Heaven your heaven, peoples heaven and paradise is just another monkey narrative and a very dumb one. Not having needs, no thirst, no hunger, no need to work to sustain yourself, no quarrels no enemies, therefore, no need for friends and allies...its a joke on Humanity creativity for storytelling....what would be of "God" left alone without something to play the "Devil'"s part? What would be of "God" without natural disasters, suffering, disease to make every minute of your limited life timespan be enjoyed every second it goes right?
The perfectness of the Universe is being imperfect and you being mortal and subject to all kinds of dangers amid some good stuff too.
How can religious people not grasp this simple concept?
Worse how can some atheists, even scientists still be looking for some sort of technological Paradise...sheeesh even the ones who point the finger at religion come up with the same wishings and wants...let's invent eternal life and download ourselves into as many computers as the galaxy can handle...
...I just facepalm all day wherever I turn into...squabling monkeys everywhere and I am tired of it all!

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@Leadfoot,

Among other reasons, the best reason is that I have a life to get on with (no matter how others may judge it), and whether or not there is a creator is irrelevant to that. The only other consideration is how the god squad all to often react to even the mere mention of atheists.

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My whole life I have been attacked for being atheist. I strike back as an act of self defense. It would never have been a topic for me otherwise.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

IDK, but it might, in Biblical interpretations, be that we are but individual algorithms running in the mind of God.

How is it that we are conscious of what's going on within our brains except because there is something fundamental built into them that enables them to consciously experience what's happening within their neural networks?

In that sense, everything we perceive is a simulation of everything that's happening to communicate information into our brains, but of course we don't think of it as a simulation when we look 'through' our eyes and see reality without thinking about it as a simulation occurring within the visual cortex of our brain.

Quote:

We could be judged at the end by how good we were at achieving the desired result.

We are judged by all the sin that happens against us. Likewise, we judge others by sinning against them. Eventually we die of sin; and then if you believe in Jesus, we continue on with eternal life in some form or other; but of course in an Atheism thread there is going to be more skepticism toward Christian philosophy than, say, that of Buddhism.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

My whole life I have been attacked for being atheist. I strike back as an act of self defense. It would never have been a topic for me otherwise.

It would have to be self-defense, wouldn't it, if you don't believe in any God or gods to defend?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I didn't make an argument for "God", I don't like it, I don't want it, and I don't need to, I made an argument for our insignificance on the statistical probability, of we Humans, being at the top of the food chain intellectually speaking in the vastness of the Cosmos!

Here is something I just saw:
https://www.sciencealert.com/periodicity-has-been-detected-in-a-repeating-fast-radio-burst

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Among other reasons, the best reason is that I have a life to get on with (no matter how others may judge it), and whether or not there is a creator is irrelevant to that.

This.

I mean really, I wonder why some care so much about it.

There either is or isn't, why waste energy and/or time on it?

Just thought of something.
Why are believers in an afterlife, specifically a heaven and hell, so concerned about getting into the former.

In this book they use as a model of how to live, this almighty power waffled enough times about mankind and was a moody son of a bitch.

I love you.
I'm gonna kill almost everyone in a flood.
Do this....no, not that way, now I have to smite you.
I'm never gonna do that again....oh yes I will.

So you get to heaven. Now you just have to wonder what side of the bed he got up on that morning, because if you don't follow some rule you maybe didn't know about, he'll kick you downstairs. There's precedent for that. If Lucifer could get kicked out, I don't like the chances of some human being able to keep in his good graces all the time.

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@chai2,

I think the religious care because, whether they admit it or not, they are control freaks whose eventual agenda is telling others what to think or how to live . . . or else I smite you, by Dog!

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Well then god taught them well because he is a big old control freak.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Why are believers in an afterlife, specifically a heaven and hell, so concerned about getting into the former.

Why are believers in the day after tomorrow concerned about having a good day and not a bad day then?

Quote:

So you get to heaven. Now you just have to wonder what side of the bed he got up on that morning, because if you don't follow some rule you maybe didn't know about, he'll kick you downstairs. There's precedent for that. If Lucifer could get kicked out, I don't like the chances of some human being able to keep in his good graces all the time.

Some people get kicked out of stores, fired, etc. Does that make you worry about your chances of having a good day the day after tomorrow?

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@livinglava,

I like having a good "today" partly because I have no idea if I'll even be around the day after tomorrow.

The day after tomorrow may or may not exist. Why worry about it?
Mr Dumas, you're actually proving my point.

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

I like having a good "today" partly because I have no idea if I'll even be around the day after tomorrow.

So nothing you do is geared toward having a good day beyond today? E.g. you don't do shopping for more than the day when you're planning to use what you buy?

Quote:

The day after tomorrow may or may not exist. Why worry about it?

If tomorrow comes, it's going to be a bad day if you didn't do anything to prepare for it. E.g. you do shopping for tomorrow today so that you will have something to eat even if you don't have time to go shopping tomorrow.

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@livinglava,

So like, does God like coconut cream pie or something that you have to keep perishible items on hand?

The denseness of your comments don't even deserve a response different from the above.

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What a maroon . . .

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

So like, does God like coconut cream pie or something that you have to keep perishible items on hand?

I think you're confused about the exchange you are referring to.

Non-perishable items can be stored for future consumption, which validates what I was saying about planning ahead in what you do today, i.e. in 'the present moment.'

Quote:

The denseness of your comments don't even deserve a response different from the above.

That's insulting.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

My whole life I have been attacked for being atheist. I strike back as an act of self defense. It would never have been a topic for me otherwise.

...gaaah I can't resist but play Devil's advocate against my friends around the place and say a couple of sentences that instantly popped to my mind.

...being honest with yourself leads you to re-think the issue.

1 - Being explicitly an atheist is a political and sociological statement.

Why?

Because, being at the least, an informal atheist, doesn't just mean you don't believe the God of the 3 major Religions but that you forsake any notion on agency and intention well above Anthropocentric standards and that is not Natural by evolution.

1.1 - We always were mindfull of hidden agents back in the Savanah and of course about hyper hidden agents back in the recess of our nightmares. That is why we are Homo Sapiens.

2 - These days I am extremely mindful of Super Intelligence and that I don't know anything about it nor am I expected to ever grasp it. If I did it wouldn't be super.

3 - Metaphysics sounds foolish but out of the mainstream religious tradition it has its merits.

3.1 - Funny enough Metaphysics was never so in vogue...we have the Multiverse talk, Spacetime being emergent talk, self "creation" ex-nihilo talk, Dark matter and Dark energy talk, the meaning of Nothingness, the meaning of Randomness, the nature of Mathematics, Infinity...oh man the list keeps growing.

4 - Is the word "god" a minimal viable product with any use to remind us of our probable statistical place on the brain food chain out there? Hell yes!

So back to my starting point...atheism is a genetic deficiency if honest or a political statement against the Bibble belt idiots. I get it, but don't sell me the zen gist about it. It is a lie!

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

1 - Being explicitly an atheist is a political and sociological statement.

What isn't a political and sociological statement?

Quote:

Because, being at the least, an informal atheist, doesn't just mean you don't believe the God of the 3 major Religions but that you forsake any notion on agency and intention well above Anthropocentric standards and that is not Natural by evolution.

You can believe in God without believing in supernatural agency/intention. You just have to realize that agency/intention are natural phenomena of the evolved human brain/mind, and then accept God/agency/intent as legitimate forms of interpreting other aspects of nature besides just human behavior.

Quote:

1.1 - We always were mindfull of hidden agents back in the Savanah and of course about hyper hidden agents back in the recess of our nightmares. That is why we are Homo Sapiens.

The universe consists of matter animated by energy. The distinction between passive determination and active agency only makes sense at a certain level, but everything is made up of physical interactions that do not distinguish between agency and determination.

In other words, we attribute agency/intent to human behavior because we experience the ability to choose our actions based on foresight, but ultimately our brains, which are doing the foreseeing and choosing, are made up of charged-ion interactions.

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The minute you apply 'god' or 'spiritual' to the equation you are anthropomorphizing. Pure and simple.

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@Setanta,

What pisses me off the most about atheists is that I have to go to them for an actual discussion about God. I have yet to get anything except regurgitated dogma from the 'religious'.

Quote:

Setanta Quote:

Among other reasons, the best reason is that I have a life to get on with (no matter how others may judge it), and whether or not there is a creator is irrelevant to that. The only other consideration is how the god squad all to often react to even the mere mention of atheists.

That's a valid consideration. My main goal in 'this life' was to simplify it as much as possible in order to have the time to think about what were to me, questions I could not ignore. The first sixty two years were mostly getting ready to face them.

Any reaction to atheists you notice in me is just the off chance hope that we might talk God stuff. There is very little altruism in it, the motive is mostly selfish. If I act differently with the religious it is for the reasons I’ve already explained.

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