Atheism

@Phoenix32890,

You are not, apparently, aware of what the thread is about. The intent was to provide a place in which atheists could discuss the experience of being an atheist. From the very beginning, it has proven to be impossible, becaue the theists and the agnostics can't leave well enough alone. There are brief passages in which atheists describe their experiences, or discuss the "state of atheism" in the contemporary world. But then the idiot theists and agnostics show up to rant, and there are pages and pages of utter drivel to wade through.

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@Frank Apisa,

What I’m trying to discuss is your assertion—a blanket statement--that beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY are blind guesses, not your assertion that saying there are no gods involved in reality is a blind guess.

Did you not mean to assert that blanket statement, or are you changing the goalposts, as it were?

If the former, then you do allow that certain beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in reality aren’t blind guesses, right?

If you stand by your blanket assertion that beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY are blind guesses, then you haven’t provided an explanation for your assertion.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

What I’m trying to discuss is your assertion—a blanket statement--that beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY are blind guesses, not your assertion that saying there are no gods involved in reality is a blind guess.

Did you not mean to assert that blanket statement, or are you changing the goalposts, as it were?

I mean everything I say, InfraBlue.

You are the one who has changed various things during this discussion...not I.

Apparently what you want to do is to obscure what is actually being discussed by rambling all over the place...and when it suits you, to characterize my comments in ways that allow you to attack the mischaracterization.

So...I am going to take my original statement AS MADE...piece by piece...and find out what I have been unable to find out by just asking...namely, what specifically in my statement (MY WORDS) do you find objectionable and an insult to reason. More about that in a second.

Quote:

If the former, then you do allow that certain beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in reality aren’t blind guesses, right?

If you stand by your blanket assertion that beliefs about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY are blind guesses, then you haven’t provided an explanation for your assertion.

If I had said, "If you were hiking on the rim of the Grand Canyon and accidentally fell over a cliffside...you would fall downward until stopped by a ledge or the canyon floor"...and you asked me to "provide an explanation for that assertion"...I would laugh at you.

In effect, I am laughing at you now, Blue.

You are asking for an "explanation" for an assertion that is self-evident...you are stalling because you realize that it is self-evident and you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

To show that it is self-evident, I will ask you once again:

How can anyone possibly say "There are NO GODS INVOLVED IN REALITY"...and have it be anything but a blind guess, Blue?

Tell me...explain to me why you are suggesting that "There are no gods involved in REALITY" can be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS...and is therefore something that needs reasoning to be explained.

Anything but a blind guess.

Tell me, Blue.

Then we will move on.

It is okay for you to say, “I cannot…obviously it is self-evident”…or you can gives an example of why you think it is not self-evident…and needs reasoning to be explained.

So how about it, Blue. Explain to me how that can be anything but a blind guess.

Then we will move on.

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@Frank Apisa,

You're avoiding the question.

A self-evident assertion, indeed.

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@Frank Apisa,

Too late for that discussion now - the collective wisdom of the board says: "enough with mindless drivel about guesses."

Guess away, Frank.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

You're avoiding the question.

A self-evident assertion, indeed.

I am NOT avoiding the question...and the specific item currently under scrutiny IS self-evident.

You can easily prove otherwise if you think I am wrong...by simply presenting a case for any way that the comment,"There are no gods involved in REALITY" can be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS.

Do it...IF YOU CAN.

Or just acknowledge that it absolutely has to be a blind guess...and we can move on.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Too late for that discussion now - the collective wisdom of the board says: "enough with mindless drivel about guesses."

Guess away, Frank.

Yeah...to you my comments are "mindless drivel."

To Blue...they are "inconsistent, incoherent and offensive to reasoned argument."

What they actually are: Right on the money!

And you, Olivier, do not speak for "the collective wisdom of the board."

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F. Apisa wrote:

What they actually are: Right on the money!

Boasting again, are we?

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

F. Apisa wrote:
What they actually are: Right on the money!

Boasting again, are we?

Rebutting, Timur.

Is that not allowed in your world?

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You revert to weasel all the time.

It has been countless times you changed your words to counter people opposing your baseless stance.

I'll use my favorite word again:

- Your "blind guesses" are just crap, as they are not even consistent with your own supposed logic.

Weasel away, Frank.

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

You revert to weasel all the time.

It has been countless times you changed your words to counter people opposing your baseless stance.

I'll use my favorite word again:

- Your "blind guesses" are just crap, as they are not even consistent with your own supposed logic.

Weasel away, Frank.

I am not a weasel, Timur. You are acting a child here.

I have not changed anything...and my stance is anything but "baseless."

If you can, why don't you give an example of why the comment "There are no gods involved in REALITY" can be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS.

C'mon...a guy who uses a picture of Georg Ohm as an avatar should be able to come up with something.

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Senility is downing on you, Frank.

Yours are worn out arguments.

You'll not bait me out into them..

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@timur,

timur wrote:

Senility is downing on you, Frank.

Not at all. But it is interesting that you have to go in that direction.

Quote:

Yours are worn out arguments.

Okay...so show that my argument about that comment is wrong.

C'mon...a guy like you should be able to do that.

Quote:

You'll not bait me out into them..

I've already baited you out, Timur. You are here showing pettiness...right?

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

And you, Olivier, do not speak for "the collective wisdom of the board."

No, but I listen to it...

BTW, how do you know that my ultimate reality is not to be "the collective wisdom of the board"?... Smile

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

You're avoiding the question.

A self-evident assertion, indeed.

I am NOT avoiding the question...and the specific item currently under scrutiny IS self-evident.

You can easily prove otherwise if you think I am wrong...by simply presenting a case for any way that the comment,"There are no gods involved in REALITY" can be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS.

Do it...IF YOU CAN.

Or just acknowledge that it absolutely has to be a blind guess...and we can move on.

That's not the question.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
And you, Olivier, do not speak for "the collective wisdom of the board."

No, but I listen to it...

BTW, how do you know that my ultimate reality is not to be "the collective wisdom of the board"?...

I do not know that, Olivier...and I have never suggested that I do. Why not try to keep up?

And for you to suggest you are listening to the collective wisdom of the board when you are merely indulging your ego...is hilarious.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

You're avoiding the question.

A self-evident assertion, indeed.

I am NOT avoiding the question...and the specific item currently under scrutiny IS self-evident.

You can easily prove otherwise if you think I am wrong...by simply presenting a case for any way that the comment,"There are no gods involved in REALITY" can be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS.

Do it...IF YOU CAN.

Or just acknowledge that it absolutely has to be a blind guess...and we can move on.

That's not the question.

Try responding to my question, Blue...rather than trying to dominate with your questions one after another. I have already answered several of yours...which you then leave in limbo.

Still waiting for you to produce anything that shows the comment,"There are no gods involved in REALITY" to be anything BUT A BLIND GUESS.

Or for you to finally work up the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that you cannot.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Yes..."beliefs" about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY ARE blind guesses.

     No, they are not. Actually everything depends on what you mean by 'gods'. If you mean something that is omnipotent and omnipresent - O.K., the 24/7 tapping of the net is also omnipotent and omnipresent, but it is not a god ... for now.
     If you define God as ID - it is existing, it is not a blind guess - our own intelligence is not a blind guess in any case, so at least one instance of ID is existing in the Universe.
     BTW it doesn't matter whether the guess is blind or pervasive - the things that matter are what you know about it and what you can prove. You cannot prove, for example, that our planet is not specially designed trans-galactic space station, that it is not a space-station where some biological species are teleported from all over the Universe, thus your affect of bewilderment in regard to this is nothing but an aware fact.

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Yes..."beliefs" about the existence or non-existence of gods in REALITY ARE blind guesses.
No, they are not.

Yeah, they actually are.

Every last one of them is a blind guess.

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@Frank Apisa,

You have yet to answer my one and only question.

The question is, “why are beliefs about gods in reality blind guesses if they too have a value of estimation and calculation?”

You’re answering your own question which is, “how can anyone possibly say 'there are no gods involved in reality?'" by saying that, "that is a blind guess" and that this, what's more, "is a self-evident assertion."

Or, is it that you're conflating the two questions?

1 Reply

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