cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:12 am
@Germlat,
From wiki.
Quote:
While the scientific community was once divided between supporters of two different expanding universe theories—the Big Bang and the Steady State theory,[8] observational confirmation of the Big Bang scenario came with the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964, and later when its spectrum (i.e., the amount of radiation measured at each wavelength) was found to match that of thermal radiation from a black body. Since then, astrophysicists have incorporated observational and theoretical additions into the Big Bang model, and its parametrization as the Lambda-CDM model serves as the framework for current investigations of theoretical cosmology.


And more recent discoveries that supports the big bang theory.
Quote:
Big Bang breakthrough announced; gravitational waves detected
By Elizabeth Landau, CNN
updated 10:37 AM EDT, Tue March 18, 2014 | Filed under: Innovations
Watch this video
Ripples in space-time revealed

Gravitational waves were predicted by Albert Einstein
New results from BICEP2 are 'smoking gun for inflation'
During inflation, the universe expanded faster than the speed of light

(CNN) -- There's no way for us to know exactly what happened some 13.8 billion years ago, when our universe burst onto the scene. But scientists announced Monday a breakthrough in understanding how our world as we know it came to be.
If the discovery holds up to scrutiny, it's evidence of how the universe rapidly expanded less than a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang.
"It teaches us something crucial about how our universe began," said Sean Carroll, a physicist at California Institute of Technology, who was not involved in the study. "It's an amazing achievement that we humans, doing science systematically for just a few hundred years, can extend our understanding that far."
What's more, researchers discovered direct evidence for the first time of what Albert Einstein predicted in his general theory of relativity: Gravitational waves.
These are essentially ripples in space-time, which have been thought of as the "first tremors of the Big Bang," according to the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
A telescope at the South Pole called BICEP2 -- Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization 2 -- was critical to the discovery. The telescope allowed scientists to analyze the polarization of light left over from the early universe, leading to Monday's landmark announcement.
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:54 am
@Germlat,
Either your English sucks, or our conprehension is poor. Scientists, in a body, may constitute a social institution. Science itself, however is functionally indifferent to such social bodies. A recluse can be a scientist. An "amateur" without formal education and no association with professional organizations can be a scientists. Science can be practiced by anyone who understands the methodology. Frankly, i see you as just arguing for argument's sake.
Germlat
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

From wiki.
Quote:
While the scientific community was once divided between supporters of two different expanding universe theories—the Big Bang and the Steady State theory,[8] observational confirmation of the Big Bang scenario came with the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964, and later when its spectrum (i.e., the amount of radiation measured at each wavelength) was found to match that of thermal radiation from a black body. Since then, astrophysicists have incorporated observational and theoretical additions into the Big Bang model, and its parametrization as the Lambda-CDM model serves as the framework for current investigations of theoretical cosmology.
And more recent discoveries that supports the big bang theory.quote]Big Bang breakthrough announced; gravitational waves detected
By Elizabeth Landau, CNN
updated 10:37 AM EDT, Tue March 18, 2014 | Filed under: Innovations
Watch this video
Ripples in space-time reveal
Gravitational waves were predicted by Albert Einstein
New results from BICEP2 are 'smoking gun for inflation'
During inflation, the universe expanded faster than the speed of light

(CNN) -- There's no way for us to know exactly what happened some 13.8 billion years ago, when our universe burst onto the scene. But scientists
announced Monday a breakthrough in understanding how our world as we know it came to be.
If the discovery holds up to scrutiny, it's evidence of how the universe rapidly expanded less than a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang.
"It teaches us something crucial about how our universe began," said Sean Carroll, a physicist at California Institute of Technology, who was not involved in the study. "It's an amazing achievement that we humans, doing science systematically for just a few hundred years, can extend our understanding that

far."
What's more, researchers discovered direct evidence for the first time of what Albert Einstein predicted in his general theory of relativity: Gravitational waves.
These are essentially ripples in space-time, which have been thought of as the "first tremors of the Big Bang," according to the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
A telescope at the South Pole called BICEP2 -- Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization 2 -- was critical to the discovery. The telescope allowed scientists to analyze the polarization of light left over from the early universe, leading to Monday's landmark announcement.

[/quote]
That's why it's a theory right? It amuses me when people don't realize that's sometimes the most logical explanation we have so far.
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:02 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Either your English sucks, or our conprehension is poor. Scientists, in a body, may constitute a social institution. Science itself, however is functionally indifferent to such social bodies. A recluse can be a scientist. An "amateur" without formal education and no association with professional organizations can be a scientists. Science can be practiced by anyone who understands the methodology. Frankly, i see you as just arguing for argument's sake.

I'm going to have to go have to go with your comprehension is biased....what has a recluse to do with a darn thing. When it comes to methodology...most are recluse...yep..not a native speaker, but my secretary is great. I doubt you're so obtuse as to not understand the principles of which I speak.
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:05 am
@Germlat,
Apparently, though, you are so obtuse as not to understand that i consider your "principle" to be a load of horsie poop. Being systematically organized does not make anything an institution.
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:07 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Apparently, though, you are so obtuse as not to understand that i consider your "principle" to be a load of horsie poop. Being systematically organized does not make anything an institution.

"Poop" doesn't count as empirical evidence...you can't get it,not my problem...anyway , you strike me as an arts major...please correct me.
Germlat
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:15 am
@Germlat,
Guessing that was an art major... Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:22 am
@Germlat,
Yes, thus far THE BEST THEORY.

Quote:
the·o·ry
ˈTHēərē,ˈTHi(ə)rē/
noun
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presupposition; More
a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
"a theory of education"
an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
"my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"


It's the BEST us humans have NOW in understanding our environment.
Germlat
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes, thus far THE BEST THEORY.

Quote:
the·o·ry
ˈTHēərē,ˈTHi(ə)rē/
noun
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presupposition; More
a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
"a theory of education"
an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
"my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"


It's the BEST us humans have NOW in understanding our environment.

I'm there with ya! The ya is going to piss off the ones that are about language form rather than ideas.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:25 am
@Germlat,
Whether or not something is an institution does not depend upon empirical evidence. I "get it," i just don't agree with it. Two horses can be hitched to a wagon to pull it. That doesn't make the horses a wagon. Your silly speculations about what i studied at university have nothing to do with your complete failure to demonstrate that science is an institution.
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:35 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Whether or not something is an institution does not depend upon empirical evidence. I "get it," i just don't agree with it. Two horses can be hitched to a wagon to pull it. That doesn't make the horses a wagon. You silly speculation about what i studied at university have nothing to do with your complete failure to demonstrate that science is an institution.
.Scientific societies , groups and associations have accepted it as such.. Your opinion to me doesn't count...You haven't pinpointed exactly what your problem is with the concept. Simply saying it's wrong doesn't cut it. You're actually the one who doesn't get it.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:36 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes, thus far THE BEST THEORY.

Quote:
the·o·ry
ˈTHēərē,ˈTHi(ə)rē/
noun
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presupposition; More
a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
"a theory of education"
an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
"my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"


It's the BEST us humans have NOW in understanding our environment.


Really!

You come up with this...while being someone who claims to be above average in English usage?


http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/clown.gif
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:38 am
@Germlat,
Upon what basis do you assert that scientific societies, groups and associations consider science to be an institution? They can be described as institution, but that doesn't make science an institution. That you are not able to understand that (apparently) is not evidence that i have not made my objection to your tortured use of the English language evident.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:43 am
@Setanta,
I agree; science is not an organized society or institution, because science is an intellectual activity that studies our environment.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:50 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Upon what basis do you assert that scientific societies, groups and associations consider science to be an institution? They can be described as institution, but that doesn't make science an institution. That you are not able to understand that (apparently) is not evidence that i have not made my objection to your tortured use of the English language evident.
. Well...kinda difficult for an arts major to comprehend . I think if you read about "Weber", it might help . But in the end science and art people seldom agree. And--there's no way you're science....pretty sure.
Herald
 
  0  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 12:47 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
It's a theory that fits with the evidence.
     What evidence - perhaps you mean the cherry-picked evidence.
     The Boyle-Mariotte law for example is also an evidence - that the Big Bang 'theory' is fake from any point of view. Can you tell us how much must have been the pressure of the zero-D space onto the moment of launching the Big Bang if the law is to be valid onto that time zero?
     What about the law of conservation of energy - another evidence that the Big Bang is impossible. If the energy of the Universe at present is E = M x c^2, where M is the mass of the Universe and c is the speed of light in vacuum, and we refer that conserved energy (if the law is to be applicable) onto the time of launching the Big Bang we have:
     E = M x c^2 = mv^2/2 + mgh
     Can you make the physical interpretation of the equation: how much is the mass of the zero-D space at Time-zero, how much should be the speed of the Nothing in vacuum, and how much is the gravitational potential of the Gravitational Continuum ... compressed into the zero-D space ... and how has that compression happened?
     Do you need any other evidence thet the theory of the Big Bang is implausible.
hingehead wrote:
Note that some of the evidence came first, then a theory was postulated to explain the evidence.
      ... and you may note that the whole theory is based on absolutely fake assumptions. We don't know (and IMV there is no way to get knowing) out of what has the Big Bang made the Universe. If the Universe has always existed the Big Bang 'theory' is no comment.
     If the time cannot exist in the physical world it cannot be relative, let alone frivolously different as a result of its proximity to an object with huge mass. There is no way for the parallels & meridians (that are also abstract concepts like time, and exist only in our mind as representation of the world) to become zig-zagable, for example, just because they are printed on a thicker paper (with greater weight).
hingehead wrote:
Then people used the theory to make predictions.
     This statement is highly misleading. The predictions are made on the grounds of the results inferred from the math equations - not on the grounds of logical inferences made over the physical interpretations of that equations. It is obvious that no predictions made in that way can make the fake interpretations to acquire valid physical sense. Invalid and fake assumptions cannot infer valid logical inferences. Anyway.
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 01:32 pm
Did somebody already say this? I'm sorry for my inattention.

I always thought science is a discipline.

It may be true that some scientists belong in institutions.
Along with many religionists, atheists, neologists, politicians, etc.

Wait. What did I just say?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 01:36 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
So..you stayed at the Holiday Inn Express and that makes you an expert.
Ha, you're funny Smile That was a good one.

I grew up with a bunch of people who worked for the research division of AT&T in the 1960's. Most of them were EE's but a few were Cosmologists, two of them were Nobel prize winners and I had dinner with one of those Nobel Prize winners less than a year ago. But none of that makes me an expert. My only point was that none of the scientists I knew from that time or venue ever had to get "approval" from management before expressing their ideas or submitting for Peer Review. That being said, they were all working on projects that they had been hired to work on, so it was kind of implicit approval.

And yes, of course Peer Review is a necessary part of the scientific process. What I was objecting to was Herald's implication that scientists have their ideas squashed and hidden before Peer Review, by a hierarchy of managers who somehow "govern" what is considered valid science. The conspiracy theorists and Creationists often recite this old saw in an effort to rationalize why their own non-peer-reviewed, non-scientific viewpoints are not accepted as science.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 02:03 pm
@Herald,
I'd have a lot more respect for your evidence if you published some papers rather than rant on a pissy Internet forum in the wrong topic. You seem somewhat apoplectic on this. Why won't you come clean and tell us what your bugbear is?

Anyway, here's some theoretical answers to your points.

Mass/energy and the Big Bang
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy05/phy05329.htm
Boyle-Mariotte
See above

All the predictions were based on mathematics is a bad thing?
That cosmic background radiation was mathematically inferred before there was a Big Bang theory, let alone a way to detect them seems pretty cool to me.

Germlat
 
  1  
Mon 25 Aug, 2014 05:06 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

I'd have a lot more respect for your evidence if you published some papers rather than rant on a pissy Internet forum in the wrong topic. You seem somewhat apoplectic on this. Why won't you come clean and tell us what your bugbear is?

Anyway, here's some theoretical answers to your points.

Mass/energy and the Big Bang
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy05/phy05329.htm
Boyle-Mariotte
See above

All the predictions were based on mathematics is a bad thing?
That cosmic background radiation was mathematically inferred before there
was a Big Bang theory, let alone a way to detect them seems pretty cool to me.



CI provided some. Or ask any 8 year-old...there really up on it.
 

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