Atheism

@Olivier5,

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pathetic aggressiveness

It's only about that Olivier. Religion is just the excuse. Wilso knows nothing about religion. If there was no religion it would be Royalists. If there were no Royalists it would be people who don't keep neat gardens.

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@hingehead,

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But the cause isn't athiesm,

I have explained that often enough hinge. The cause is the freedom to engage in activities which the Theists seek to prevent, or inhibit. And to indulge in them without a sense of shame.

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There will be atheists who never disclose they are atheists.

That is because such a disclosure invites people to suspect that the activities mentioned above are, or have been, engaged in.

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@Setanta,

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the arch-Tory newspaper in Canada, which claimed that the number of "religious atheists" was 38%.

I am surprised that the figure is so low. The task is actually to try to maintain some standards of decency and decorum in the community.

To believe or not believe in the existence of a Deity is obviously something of an affectation of a overblown ego.

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I am not certain if people want atheists to have dogma, out of fear or jealousy. Once they seize on the notion, they are like a dog with a new squeaky toy. I know for a fact that no two of the atheists I read on a2k are alike, in much, if anything.

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@Olivier5,

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Well yes, that's playing with words.

Only in your opinion. I'm trying to be semantically exact.

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That's called staying in the closet. If that's what you guys want to do, fine...

Strawman. I'm not in the closet about my atheism at all. Have no idea why you would even say that. Weird.

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Yes. Nothing is without consequences of all kinds.

So you pointing at that it would have consequences is absolutely meaningless?

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@edgarblythe,

Come on Ed, you know we both like beer.

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@hingehead,

But, surely you don't drink Lone Star?

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@edgarblythe,

If you offered me one I'd take it. They don't stock it at Dan Murphy's sadly (although we do get miller lime and some pumpkin beer).

I have drunk Estrella - that Spanish for 'star' so kind of close (considering how close Texas is to Mexico) Smile

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@hingehead,

Lone Star is made by the Pearl Brewery. They used to sell Pearl Beer, also, but it faded out. It tasted lots like Pabst.

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@hingehead,

Definitely, in my opinion atheism is an idea. And an idea which time has come.

The closet remark was because the only example you could come with of an atheism without consequences was about people living a life of hypocrisy, hiding their atheism. Nothing really exiting, sorry...

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@Olivier5,

I misinterpreted the 'you' I thought it was directed at me, sorry.

I hope it's time has come - but really it is only about not believing in gods - the big philosophical and ethical questions roll on and I don't think an atheist will make you think one or another - except that you won't think the answer is held by some omniscient, omnipresent being and his massively retranslated, rewrtiten and self-contradictory book started by goatherds and manipulated by the politics and political figures of the distant past.

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@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

I hope it's time has come - but really it is only about not believing in gods - the big philosophical and ethical questions roll on and I don't think an atheist will make you think one or another - except that you won't think the answer is held by some omniscient, omnipresent being and his massively retranslated, rewrtiten and self-contradictory book started by goatherds and manipulated by the politics and political figures of the distant past.

Careful Hinge. That looks a lot like logical thought. You'll frighten the god botherers.

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Hingehead said: some omniscient, omnipresent being and his massively retranslated, rewrtiten and self-contradictory book

But if the Bible's been re-written over the centuries, why didn't each successive writing team edit out the contradictions to make it look all neat and tidy?

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@hingehead,

You see? I told you: no idea is without consequences...

As for me, I am not hiding my ideas in a closet, and I can elect an atheist mayor, MP or president... American atheists need to grow some balls.

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@Olivier5,

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You see? I told you: no idea is without consequences...

?

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As for me, I am not hiding my ideas in a closet, and I can elect an atheist mayor, MP or president... American atheists need to grow some balls.

You chop and change so much I'm never sure what point you are trying to make - but your this point you make seems facile. Americans can elect atheist officials (and have done) but in a largely non-secular society it's not about atheists having balls it's about theists having eyes/brains.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

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Hingehead said: some omniscient, omnipresent being and his massively retranslated, rewrtiten and self-contradictory book

But if the Bible's been re-written over the centuries, why didn't each successive writing team edit out the contradictions to make it look all neat and tidy?

Because they were separated by distance of both land and time. There was no printing press at that time so copies had to be hand written and that takes time. People who wanted copies would have to hire scribes to make them and often times the scribes didn't do the work themselves they had assistants doing the actual labor and they were there to just assist them.

You have to think of it like tree branches. As the copies are made they move further out getting into remote areas that are cut off from the other places. So you don't get a chance to compare notes. A scribe works with what they have available, errors included. All it takes is for a disgruntled assistant to put in his own ideas and you can have major differences.

This has been documented too. There are copies that have omissions and some that have extra things added. So much so that you can't even tell which were the originals. In fact they don't even have copies of the originals.

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Krumple said: There are copies that have omissions and some that have extra things added. So much so that you can't even tell which were the originals. In fact they don't even have copies of the originals.

So what? No parchment lasts 2000 years without crumbling to dust unless carefully preserved. Obviously, when the paper began fading they simply kept making new copies good for another 100 years or so.
As for new translations, they provide useful new angles for cross reference but the underlying message stays the same, just as with many different cover versions and arrangements of a new song, the underlying tune stays the same.. Smile

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

So what? No parchment lasts 2000 years without crumbling to dust unless carefully preserved. Obviously, when the paper began fading they simply kept making new copies good for another 100 years or so.
As for new translations, they provide useful new angles for cross reference but the underlying message stays the same, same as many different cover versions and arrangements of a new song, the underlying tune stays the same..

You know the story of Jesus and the prostitute? I'm not going to bother looking it up for reference because I'm pretty sure you know the story I am referring to. Where two guys want to stone this woman to death in the presence of jesus and he says his famous line? Biblical scholars actually think this entire story is a forgery. Because it is completely out of context from the paragraphs that precede and follow it. Not only that but when they compare other copies the narrative is different in them or completely missing all together.

So your idea that it doesn't change the underline message is not accurate to say the least. If writers are making up stuff or omitting crucial information it does change the context.

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@edgarblythe,

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I know for a fact that no two of the atheists I read on a2k are alike, in much, if anything.

That might be because they don't show the hand they are playing. If they did they have no alternative other than to promote the free exercise of those sexual appetites which cannot be legislated for.

And any legislation which inhibits the free exercise of the sexual appetites applies to the legislators and the enforcers unless there comes into being a two-tier society similar to that which arranged special shops for Party members in Communist Russia and the Soviet Union and which existed behind well guarded walls.

Obviously no two atheists are alike in respect of such things as styles of dress, preferred breakfast cereals, fingerprints and handwriting. Which makes your point meaningless Edgar.

Atheists are mostly alike in rejecting those aspects of Christian sexual morals which are not covered by the law. It is my contention that the rejection of Christian inhibition of sexual behaviour is the sole reason for atheism in most cases.

Will any atheist step into the light and claim to have lived, or be living, within the rules of Christian sexual conduct.

And some of the sexual restrictions which are covered by the law derive from Christian teaching.

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@hingehead,

I think, hinge, that designating the writers of scripture as goat herders is fanciful and convenient for your purpose but I will accept that what they wrote might well have been subsequently manipulated by political considerations.

The real question is whether those manipulations were, and are, useful and whether a better alternative was ever available in all the circumstances.

Is it too much to ask that you address yourself to the point? There is no question of any interest in omniscient, omnipresent being/s. It is all man made on the surface of the earth.

Your goat herders, and your omniscient, omnipresent being, are men of straw. They are your own inventions, or of those who guide your thoughts, which enable you to attempt to discredit Christianity the easy way. Your reliance on a dim audience is not to your credit I'm afraid.

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