Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:03 am
@hingehead,
That was interesting, Boss. If you're a humanist, does that automatically mean you're an atheist? If you're an atheist, are you a humanist by default? I've known a few really sorry-ass people who were or claimed to be atheists.
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:05 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Why don't you ignore Set, Spendi? He's just another troll anyway, to the extent that he doesn't contribute anything of substance but keep lambasting other people who do...
Hey!
Set and I go way back. And we have a deal:
I won't say anything to promote atheism.
And he won't say anything to promote god bothering, whatever that is.
We cyber sealed the deal many years ago over an a2k latte.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:07 am
@Olivier5,
I wouldn't dream of ignoring anybody. Not ever. It is the authentic hallmark of the spoiled little girl having a sulk and I am glad that Robert introduced the function as it enables me to identify the little dears and their flabby centres containing nothing but wind and piss.

Setanta, and his ilk, do not belong on A2K never mind this thread. They are all trolls and control freaks and intellectual cowards of the lowest order.

When I joined the site suchlike nonentities were running the show in the manner of a Bolshevik Commissariat.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:10 am
I thought I would enjoy congregating for cause, but the churches I attended dispelled that notion. I failed to get that feeling and failed to accept belief. I have never sought to join up with other atheists. None sought to meet with me. Not in seven decades.
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:21 am
@edgarblythe,
I thought about an atheist meeting . . .

Hi, my name's Bob.

Hi, Bob, i'm John. I don't believe there's a god.

Yeah, i don't either.

. . .

. . .

{whistles softly]

. . .

So howzabout them Yankees, eh?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:23 am
@edgarblythe,
On this we do agree: Traditional religions have failed to bring about lasting peace, freedom from crime, etc. In fact, many have been complicit in mankind's misery.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:24 am
@Setanta,

Quote:
Setanta, and his ilk, do not belong on A2K never mind this thread. They are all trolls and control freaks and intellectual cowards of the lowest order.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:25 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
So howzabout them Yankees, eh?
So that's it!
I knew there was something about them Yankees!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:25 am
@spendius,
I always found the iggy function on message boards very useful. Guess I'm a spoiled little girl... Smile
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:36 am
@neologist,
That's not much of a reason to want to hang with atheists, is it?
panzade
 
  2  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:38 am
https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1495549_613992702026243_1534158553_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 10:48 am
When the plane was reported missing it was probably already in bits on the ocean floor, so all the prayers in the world wouldn't have helped it anyway!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 11:46 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Traditional religions have failed to bring about lasting peace, freedom from crime, etc. In fact, many have been complicit in mankind's misery.

The same could be said about atheism, no? How many innocent people did Mao and Stalin kill? Many more than any pope... And they also failed to bring about peace and freedom.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 12:09 pm
@Olivier5,
If you are interested, Oliver, in plumbing the sordid depths of Setanta's gratuitous name-dropping (Popper) for the devious purpose of misleading members here you might find the Wikipedia entry for Popper enlightening.

A standing prick has no conscience.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 12:17 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I always found the iggy function on message boards very useful. Guess I'm a spoiled little girl...


Not necessarily. Message boards are not the same as debates of some importance. Not that I ever go on any message boards. A2K is my only weakness.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 12:23 pm
@spendius,
Popper has been my favorite philosopher for decades. I read every single thing he wrote, and warmly recommend him. You might appreciate "the Open Society and Its Enemies".
hingehead
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 02:16 pm
@Setanta,
I don't think you have to be an atheist to be a humanist, because I hear the term "secular humanist" a lot, I think I posted their manifesto deep in the bowels of this thread. But I'm no expert. Fry is a noted atheist though.

And I agree that you get arseclowns who hold all beliefs and non-beliefs.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 02:31 pm
@Olivier5,
I doubt it. I'm not a fan of open society if it means what it says it does.

What does it mean? Can the idea be falsified without trying it? As I don't think it is possible in a society like ours, it can't be falsified.

There is a middle way.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 02:43 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
I don't think you have to be an atheist to be a humanist, because I hear the term "secular humanist" a lot, I think I posted their manifesto deep in the bowels of this thread.


It's a load of flim-flam hinge. It only sounds plausible in a settled Christian society where there is something to oppose.

What would it be like in a secular humanist society?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 26 Mar, 2014 03:29 pm
@spendius,
Long story short, open society basically means democracy, as opposed to dictatorship. Popper is simply applying to political science his "science is faslifiable" idea. A society is open if it finetunes its political choices through trial and error, and therefore if its policy choices are reversible. You try an idea; if it works you keep it and expand on it; if it fails you try something else. That's what he thinks science should do, and also what societies should do. He calls that social engineering.

This approach is hampered when decision makers outlaw or persecute those who disagree with them, because then these societies are unable to learn from their errors and are bound to keep making the same errors.

Well, I tried... In any case, this stuff is nowadays totally mainstream, at least officially. In practice, dissenters are being persecuted in the US and other democratic places too, and the capacity of democracies to learn from their mistakes should probably not be overstated. Technocracy, lobbies, the elites, many forces oppose change and the people's will, even in democracies.

Sometimes a dictatorship will actually change much faster. China comes to mind. It's been much more successful lately than India, which is democratic. Popper's warnings against one-man regimes do not apply to China. They have a certain way of maintaining the status quo while allowing for cautious change.

So you are right, there might be a third way. Although I remain suspicious of providential men, I sometimes find myself crying for one. Popper's weakness in philosophy of science was that he did not understand the value of intuition. Most analytical minds fail on that one. The same weakness translates in his political philosophy: he cannot see that sometimes, fiddling through your present system of democratic governance will just not work. Sometimes you need bold leadership, a revolution, a leap of faith... even if it's risky.
 

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