Atheism

It seems that the majority are unable to think independently from what their parents, siblings, friends, and acquaintances have imposed on them since childhood about religious beliefs. I find it fascinating to observe in my own siblings who are devoted to their faith, and continue to believe in their god as they pray/talk to him daily, and believe he's listening. I still don't understand how they are able to reconcile all of the errors, omissions, and contradictions in the bible, and still believe there is a message of "love."

To think that man has been creating gods for over 6,000 years proves that fact that man is prone to believe in gods. Being an atheist is an anomaly.

I wonder why some of us "gets it?"

More than likely the answer to your question comes from the evolution of our brains. From some of the stuff I have been reading, there is a psychological necessity for us to create these "spiritual" concepts. However; there is always a time when we can transcend or evolve past these needs. I think what we are witnessing is the process of the brain and human psychology evolving to a state where these concepts are no longer necessary for our survival.

I am less than convinced by the argument that has been put forth recently that this is an evolutionary trait. The reason i would say this is because there is evidence since classical times (classical in western terms) that there have been atheists. If this were indeed an evolutionary trait, then atheists would have died out long ago, and should not now exist. The first example of what has become known as the watchmaker argument for a creator dates back more than 2000 years to Cicero, and the argument from design has been attributed even earlier to Socrates and Aristotle. There would be no need to advance such an argument unless skepticism about a creation and a creator (or creators) were not either wide-spread or prominent.

I think the idea of god became common and widely-accepted long ago, but i see no compelling argument that it has any evolutionary advantage attached to it. The evidence that skepticism about gods was common even thousands of years ago is inferential, but very strong.

Wonder no more ci. It is because you are a superior examples of human nature. What is astonishing is how you put up with all the ignorant, superstitious credulity with which you are surrounded.

Perhaps if atheists were the only ones allowed to bring up children and occupy responsible positions all your difficulties would soon be resolved.

From what I have seen none of your recent presidents "gets it". Maybe you should relocate to N. Korea. They "gets it" there I think.

Oh--I forgot--you haven't offered any scientific proof that America exists. Surely you have noticed the similarities between the services, ceremonies, rituals, dogmas and mantras associated with a belief that America exists and those surrounding the belief that God exists.

Some people believe that wives and husbands exist and there is no scientific proof for those either. The law recognises the categories for convenience just as America and God are conveniences.

What atheists need to do, instead of continually attacking beliefs whilst complaining about politicians employing negative ads, is set out a way forward in the absence of all beliefs which, by definition, have no scientific grounding. If they would do that they might be taken more seriously.

I have a few years experience as a demolition contractor and I know how much easier it is to knock structures down than it is to replace them.

Atheists have been at it for a very long time and they are saying exactly the same simple things they were saying at the beginning. So there's obviously no evolution involved in their position except that evolution which proceeds at the pace Darwin describes.

I've read those studies as well, but I don't agree with their conclusions. I think they are failing to differentiate between a selection for "spirituality" and a selection for "doing what the group does". In human evolution there is a strong selection for being part of the group because survival was enhanced by the group (this is much less apparent in modern societies). And believing what the group believed was probably a strong part of maintaining that relationship. However, the fact that stone age cultures were "spiritual" was just coincident to this need.

And ironically the reason stone age cultures were more spiritual (fewer atheists) back then was that the arguments for "gods" actually made more logical sense back then given their limited knowledge of how nature works. Without the scientific process and empirical evidence and a boatload of factual knowledge, it actually made more sense to assume that nature behaved anthropomorphically. I think this is why spiritualism/gods developed. Not because the human mind needs "gods" but because the human mind instinctively tries to explain things in the most functional way it can. This is exactly the same process which is occurring today which is undermining religion. The instinctive behavior of the human brain hasn't changed. What's changed is that we now have scientific knowledge upon which to build our logic and understanding of things. That base didn't exist in the stone age, or even in the middle ages. The only thing slowing the process down is cultural resistance (desire to be part of your group). A very neat loop of irony

Not only have you given plausible argumentation, but you've presented an elegant argument for your thesis. I concur and i congratulate you.

Thank you

Hear, hear! I also concur.

Wow. I thought that thing came out pretty well when I wrote it, but three people on A2K all agreeing on something... that's almost scary.

Setanta was taking the piss Eorl. He's too smart a bloke to be taken in with that far-fetched farrago of flapdoodling teleologies and downright absurdity which ros thought it his duty to compose in the feverish atmosphere of his computer room and deliver up for our edification. He was titivating ros's ego. Ironically.

One has to sincerely hope that such social behaviour as that sort of "get it off the chest" pomposity in ros's spiel is is not to be selected in, assuming one has the welfare of the generations to follow our trudging footsteps through this weary and woeful vale of tears at the forefront of one's thoughts.

Well-- we don't want ros being almost scared do we?

Spendy.............. your last two posts show who's scared and it aint ros.

Make me the 4th.

What scientific proof have you tf that Setanta was not taking the piss out of ros?

If I heard somebody say in the pub--



I would automatically assume the speaker was taking the piss. No other thought would occur to me.

Spendius I do think I see where you are coming from. Not only have you not given a plausible argumentation, but you've presented a short but elegant argument with your reply. I concur and i congratulate you.

Well--we shouldn't underestimate Setanta's intelligence. The idea that he meant those fine sounding words literally does just that imo.

(Sorry if this has been mentioned before.) The brain evolved the ability to look for agency/intent in what it observes. We can usually recognize manmade objects and recognize the intent of animals through observing their movements. I think this ability helped humans survive, but it also made them prone to assign agency to things they couldn't explain, such as the weather, death, etc. That means they had to fabricate an unobservable, powerful entity behind the imagined intent.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=patternicity-finding-meaningful-patterns

ok, five

Take this osso--



We have no scientific knowledge of the first cause. So we don't have "scientific knowledge upon which to build our logic and understanding of things". If we did have there would be no need for further research.

There were plenty of atheists in the Middle Ages and in Classical times. I imagine there were some in the Stone Age.

And if "cultural resistance", which is a selected trait too, is slowing down atheism and it is caused by a "desire to be part of the group" it follows that those wanting to speed things up have no desire to be part of the group. Which is alienation and aculturalism.

ros's whole post was tripe. Specious, quasi-plausible tripe.