BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:15 pm
@aidan,
Deists/atheists divide had always been interesting and not at all that clear at times when it come to any one person.

Second, before the theory of evolution had gained some credit most non-believers was stop by the complex life they saw all around them that they could not explain without some form of a designer being a primary mover.

Not even Thomas Paine the writer of the “Age of Reason” could declared himself an out and out atheist because of that problem.
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  0  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:30 pm
Setanta reminds me of this guy:
http://img2.timeinc.net/health/images/slides/as-good-as-it-gets-300-400x400.jpg
Wouldn't you agree?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 05:26 pm
DALLAS " Investigators have seized books on demons and atheism as well as rifles and knives from in a home linked to one of the men charged with setting an east Texas church on fire and suspected in a string of similar blazes.

Jason Robert Bourque, 19, and Daniel George McAllister, 21, were arrested Sunday and charged with a single count of felony arson in the torching of the Dover Baptist Church near Tyler about 90 miles east of Dallas.

Court documents link the suspects to the Feb. 8 Dover Baptist fire and another the same day at the Clear Spring Missionary Baptist Church in nearby Lindale. The churches are among 11 that have burned in Texas this year in suspected arson attacks.

Investigators searching a home Sunday in rural Grand Saline where Bourque's girlfriend and family live discovered paperback books titled "Demon Possession" and "The Atheist's Way," according to an affidavit filed Tuesday by Texas Ranger Sgt. Brent Davis. Also found were four rifles, three knives and a GPS device at the double-wide manufactured home, the affidavit said.

Bourque also left graffiti in a bathroom stall at a farm and ranch supply store in Tyler that links him to another one of the fires, the affidavit said. Bourque was under surveillance on Feb. 13 when he and his father went into the store, and security video footage shows him entering the men's bathroom, according to the affidavit.

A day later, investigators discovered a carving on a bathroom stall of an upside down cross with flames and the words "Little Hope was arson," the affidavit said.

The Little Hope Baptist Church in Canton burned on Jan. 1, but the cause of the fire hadn't been stated publicly at the time of the surveillance, according to the affidavit.

As a result, the cause "would not have been known to anyone else other than the fire setter," the affidavit said.

Investigators determined that the carving wasn't present when the bathroom was cleaned on Feb. 12, according to the affidavit.

Bourque and McAllister, described as childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler, have been ordered jailed in lieu of $10 million bond and could face life in prison if convicted. Citing a gag order, attorneys for the two men declined comment Wednesday.

Affidavits filed in the case also show that investigators obtained DNA samples from both suspects.

Investigators have matched DNA extracted from a brick found at the scene of one fire and a rock from another and want to see if it can be linked to either suspect, according to the documents.

___

Associated Press Writer Schuyler Dixon contributed to this report from Tyler.

littlek
 
  4  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 05:27 pm
Quote:
Of course, taking me on is what I want. What else are debates about? Who wants to contribute to the thread and nobody take them on? Isn't Kay trying to provoke me by saying that my post about the benefits to ladies of always providing them with some nagging opportunities makes her vomit. Which I don't believe actually.
URL: http://able2know.org/topic/141106-29


1. I said your comments made me want to vomit. I meant it. I had a visceral, nauseated feeling in my gut. My only intention was to let you know in no uncertain terms that I was not enjoying your chauvinistic assumptions.

2. What debate are you talking about? This is not a debate thread. We are not debating. Or the intention was not to debate. It was to discuss. I don't like debates. I don't enjoy debates. I don't want to debate. Get the point?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 05:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's a shame. This joker is obviously a nut case. This will, however, re-enforce in the minds of religious fundamentalists, a false belief that atheist are satanists, as well. No rational atheist would be a satanist, because you need to have "god" to have Satan. Additionally, it will re-enforce a false stereotype that atheists are violently hostile to religious people.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 05:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
You do know that most church fires are set by members of those churches not mad evil non-god fearing Atheists correct?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 06:12 pm
That's what I thought, setanta. To bone up on demons while purporting to be atheist -
He seriously seeks to injure society as an end in itself. Apparently has no guiding principles.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 06:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
They are incidents Ed. Trivial in the flow. Hardly that. By drawing attention to them they are encouraged.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 06:45 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
They are incidents Ed. Trivial in the flow. Hardly that. By drawing attention to them they are encouraged.


I love the idea here that we need to treat the population as children.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 06:48 pm
@BillRM,
You've lost me there Bill. Would you explain what you mean?
Eorl
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 07:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

That's what I thought, setanta. To bone up on demons while purporting to be atheist -
He seriously seeks to injure society as an end in itself. Apparently has no guiding principles.

Not sure that's a safe conclusion. Could have good reasons to want to burn churches. Wonder if had much contact with priests as a child for example...
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 07:08 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
You've lost me there Bill. Would you explain what you mean?


I see no reason not to draw attention to them in the a factual manner as such behavior is interesting and also rare.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 07:31 pm
@Eorl,
Dude . . . this joker was a Babdist . . . you can't hang all religious perversion on the Cat-licks . . . a Babdist minister can be just as squirrelly as any of them . . .
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 24 Feb, 2010 07:34 pm
It's an almost local story. Should continue to get lots of local coverage. I plan to pay attention to further details before speculating more.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Fri 26 Feb, 2010 08:43 pm
I have yet to read this thoroughly. Want to do so before saying much, but I already take issue with at least some of it. - edgarblythe

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/
CNN) -- Political, religious and sexual behaviors may be reflections of intelligence, a new study finds.

Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs. This applied also to sexual exclusivity in men, but not in women. The findings will be published in the March 2010 issue of Social Psychology Quarterly.

The IQ differences, while statistically significant, are not stunning -- on the order of 6 to 11 points -- and the data should not be used to stereotype or make assumptions about people, experts say. But they show how certain patterns of identifying with particular ideologies develop, and how some people's behaviors come to be.

The reasoning is that sexual exclusivity in men, liberalism and atheism all go against what would be expected given humans' evolutionary past. In other words, none of these traits would have benefited our early human ancestors, but higher intelligence may be associated with them.

"The adoption of some evolutionarily novel ideas makes some sense in terms of moving the species forward," said George Washington University leadership professor James Bailey, who was not involved in the study. "It also makes perfect sense that more intelligent people -- people with, sort of, more intellectual firepower -- are likely to be the ones to do that."

Bailey also said that these preferences may stem from a desire to show superiority or elitism, which also has to do with IQ. In fact, aligning oneself with "unconventional" philosophies such as liberalism or atheism may be "ways to communicate to everyone that you're pretty smart," he said.

The study looked at a large sample from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health), which began with adolescents in grades 7-12 in the United States during the 1994-95 school year. The participants were interviewed as 18- to 28-year-olds from 2001 to 2002. The study also looked at the General Social Survey, another cross-national data collection source.

Kanazawa did not find that higher or lower intelligence predicted sexual exclusivity in women. This makes sense, because having one partner has always been advantageous to women, even thousands of years ago, meaning exclusivity is not a "new" preference.

For men, on the other hand, sexual exclusivity goes against the grain evolutionarily. With a goal of spreading genes, early men had multiple mates. Since women had to spend nine months being pregnant, and additional years caring for very young children, it made sense for them to want a steady mate to provide them resources.

Religion, the current theory goes, did not help people survive or reproduce necessarily, but goes along the lines of helping people to be paranoid, Kanazawa said. Assuming that, for example, a noise in the distance is a signal of a threat helped early humans to prepare in case of danger.

"It helps life to be paranoid, and because humans are paranoid, they become more religious, and they see the hands of God everywhere," Kanazawa said.

Participants who said they were atheists had an average IQ of 103 in adolescence, while adults who said they were religious averaged 97, the study found. Atheism "allows someone to move forward and speculate on life without any concern for the dogmatic structure of a religion," Bailey said.

"Historically, anything that's new and different can be seen as a threat in terms of the religious beliefs; almost all religious systems are about permanence," he noted.

The study takes the American view of liberal vs. conservative. It defines "liberal" in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. It does not look at other factors that play into American political beliefs, such as abortion, gun control and gay rights.

"Liberals are more likely to be concerned about total strangers; conservatives are likely to be concerned with people they associate with," he said.

Given that human ancestors had a keen interest in the survival of their offspring and nearest kin, the conservative approach -- looking out for the people around you first -- fits with the evolutionary picture more than liberalism, Kanazawa said. "It's unnatural for humans to be concerned about total strangers." he said.

The study found that young adults who said they were "very conservative" had an average adolescent IQ of 95, whereas those who said they were "very liberal" averaged 106.

It also makes sense that "conservatism" as a worldview of keeping things stable would be a safer approach than venturing toward the unfamiliar, Bailey said.

Neither Bailey nor Kanazawa identify themselves as liberal; Bailey is conservative and Kanazawa is "a strong libertarian."

Vegetarianism, while not strongly associated with IQ in this study, has been shown to be related to intelligence in previous research, Kanazawa said. This also fits into Bailey's idea that unconventional preferences appeal to people with higher intelligence, and can also be a means of showing superiority.

None of this means that the human species is evolving toward a future where these traits are the default, Kanazawa said.

"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.

Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 06:07 am
It seems to me that there's an awful lot of reliance here upon subject statements about the human condition, especially with reference to what might have been conducive to the survival of the species, and of individuals within the species.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 07:17 am
@edgarblythe,
The reason atheists tend to be brighter is self-evidence as they were the ones able to throw off childhood conditionings and stop believing in fairy tales.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 08:17 am
The irony here is just killer . . .
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  2  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 08:41 am
@edgarblythe,
Edgar, I was just about to post that article! You're so smart! <grin>
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 08:54 am
@littlek,
I had to give you a thumbs up for your astute observation.
0 Replies
 
 

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