Setanta
 
  3  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 12:04 pm
@failures art,
So what? I'm saying you are disrupting the thread. I've conceded nothing, because there is nothing to concede. As always, you're just no good at this.
Intrepid
 
  0  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 12:35 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

If the object were to discuss the topic of this thread, there would be no reason for you to post here at all. Now i'm sure you'll start whining that i'm attempting to exclude you. The topic of the thread is the experience of being an atheists--something about which you can, by definition, know nothing.

Neologist might have a place in this thread, given that, by his accounnt, he was long an atheist, before he took up the confession which he now espouses. Is that going to be your dodge?


You are, apparently, ignorant of the fact that I was also once an atheist. You are also not considering that anyone not currently an atheist may want to enter the thread to see what atheists think about their atheism. Not that any of that matters because, as far as I know, this is still a free board with unlimited access to all of it's features.

I don't worry whether you attempt to exclude me. You are but a tiny cog in the wheel of this thread or this forum.
JTT
 
  -1  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 12:37 pm
@Setanta,
If the thread is about atheism then all aspects of atheism are fair game, including attacking atheists for their atheistic beliefs.

Set is also famous for wanting to and actively seeking to control the extent of the discussion.

Next, he'll be predicting the imminent demise of this thread. He'll do this to blame all those around him who disagree with his ideas.
Intrepid
 
  -1  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 12:39 pm
@JTT,
Maybe he will regale us with the history of atheism in modern society.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  -1  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 01:11 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

So what? I'm saying you are disrupting the thread. I've conceded nothing, because there is nothing to concede. As always, you're just no good at this.

If you say so. You said that I claimed you were disrupting the thread. Being that that didnt happen, and you didn't support it, concession seems pretty much resolved. Similarly, you jumped on year2027 and called him a liar for when he said you called him a name. You're not doing well at keeping track of details.

Set, you deserve exactly the attention you get. You earned it.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 01:12 pm
Will it ever end?
George
 
  0  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 01:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.
Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because . . .
This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.
Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because . . .
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  4  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 04:18 pm
I don't know this is the most appropriate place to post this but it made me laugh, hope you do too:
http://giantmecha.com/uploads/churchwars.jpg
Intrepid
 
  1  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 04:26 pm
@hingehead,
It just shows that Christians DO have a sense of humour. Smile
hingehead
 
  2  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 04:42 pm
@Intrepid,
Surprisingly Catholics seem to have one, but not the Presbyterians.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  4  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 10:27 pm
Not meant to offend the many reasonably reasonable theists who wander past this thread, but this did seem like the place to post this:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2jer8yo.jpg
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 10:30 pm
I once had a baseball - - -
hingehead
 
  2  
Wed 22 Dec, 2010 10:35 pm
@edgarblythe,
PROVE IT!
Intrepid
 
  1  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 01:39 am
@hingehead,
I have a bat







Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 04:56 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
Not that any of that matters because, as far as I know, this is still a free board with unlimited access to all of it's features.

I don't worry whether you attempt to exclude me. You are but a tiny cog in the wheel of this thread or this forum.


Yes indeed . . . apparently you didn't have this in mind earlier in the thread when you claimed i was trying to exclude you.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 05:03 am
@hingehead,
That was pretty damned hilarious, Boss . . . them Presbyterians seemed intent on proving they have no imagination, or a sense of humor . . . John Calvin wasn't too damed funny, though, come to think of it . . .
spendius
 
  0  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 05:15 am
@Setanta,
Imagination and a sense of humour are unlikely characteristics to thrive in the sort of locations Presbyterians are adapted to.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 07:48 pm
Source
Quote:
The state, religion and the need for rational scrutiny

RUSSELL BLACKFORD

Religious teachings promise us a deeper understanding of reality, more meaningful lives, morally superior conduct, and such benefits as rightness with a Supreme Being or liberation from earthly attachments. One way or another, the world's religions offer spiritual salvation, or something very like it. If any of their teachings are rationally warranted, it would be good to know which ones.

At the same time, however, religious teachings can be onerous in their demands; if they can't deliver on what they promise, it would be just as well to know that. I take it, then, that there's a strong case for rational scrutiny of religious teachings. Even if reason can take us only so far, it would be good to explore just how far.

But just how urgent a task is the rational scrutiny of religion? Is it really needed in a modern, and apparently secular, liberal democracy such as Australia? Isn’t Australian religiosity rather unobtrusive and undemanding? In that case, is there any need to engage in strong, publicly prominent criticism of religious teachings, the organisations that promote them, or the leaders of those organisations? Perhaps rational critiques of religion should be available in peer-reviewed philosophy journals - but no great effort should be made to debunk religion in popular books, magazine or newspaper articles, or media appearances.

I disagree. All too often, religious organisations and their representatives seek to control how we plan and run our lives, including how we die. At various times, the religious have opposed a vast range of activities and innovations: anaesthesia; abortion; contraceptive technologies; stem-cell and therapeutic cloning research; physician-assisted suicide; the teaching of robust scientific findings, such as those of evolutionary biology; and a wide range of essentially harmless sexual conduct involving consenting adults. Even in Australia, churches and sects frequently lobby for laws that restrict our freedoms.

As in other Western democracies, religious organisations in Australia are not always politically liberal or even moderate. On the contrary, recent years have seen the increasing influence of very large Pentecostal organisations, such as Hillsong and Catch the Fire Ministries, which pursue a political agenda little different from that of the Christian Right in America. Conservative Catholics, such as Cardinal George Pell, actively seek to influence political affairs. We have seen considerable activism from Australia’s religious lobbies, and successive governments have pandered blatantly to Christian moral concerns.

It's not surprising that so many contributors to The Australian Book of Atheism (Scribe Publications; ed. Warren Bonnet) are appalled by the promotion of religion by the Howard and Rudd governments, with Julia Gillard now following suit.

Public scrutiny and criticism of religion’s truth-claims and moral authority would be less urgent if the various churches and sects agreed unequivocally to a wall of separation between themselves and the state. Unfortunately, however, they often have good reasons, judged by their own lights, to oppose such a strict secularism. Some churches and sects do not distinguish sharply between guidance on individual salvation and the exercise of political power.

They may be sceptical about the independence of secular goals from religious ones, or about the distinction between personal goals and those of the state. They may be sceptical about the danger that liberal-minded people see when adherents of competing worldviews jostle to impose them by means of political power. Some religious groups do not accept the reality of continuing social pluralism. Instead, they look to a day when their views will prevail over others.

When religion claims authority in the political sphere, it is unsurprising and totally justifiable that atheists and sceptics question the source of this authority. If religious organisations or their leaders claim to speak on behalf of a god, it is fair to ask whether the god concerned really makes the claims that are communicated on its behalf. Does this god even exist? Where is the evidence? And even if this being does exist, why, exactly, should its wishes be heeded, let alone translated into laws enforced by the state’s coercive power?

These questions are being asked more often, and so they should be. When they're asked publicly, even with a touch of aggression, that’s an entirely healthy thing.

Dr Russell Blackford is a Conjoint Lecturer at the University of Newcastle and a contributor to The Australian Book of Atheism.
panzade
 
  2  
Thu 23 Dec, 2010 08:58 pm
@hingehead,
Recently John James ,former lead singer of the Christian band, the Newsboys came to our local church to tell his story and he mentioned that in Australia all the public schools had religious clubs and prayer groups.
He said: "Crikey mate! I'm gonna help you do the same in your schools" He supposedly had meetings with the school supntndt but nothing much has come of it.
hingehead
 
  1  
Fri 24 Dec, 2010 02:35 am
@panzade,
Our public schools can have religious clubs and prayer groups but in my limited experience it wasn't all that prevalent. They were very much created by interested students rather than by some sort of organising force outside of the school.Of course we do have an abundance of madrassas, I mean, privately run church schools, that attract more funding from the govt than the public system to my unending despair, and I'm sure they have lots of prayer groups etc.

But really the idea of an Australian christian rock group must be one of those war crimes JTT accuses us of perpetrating occasionally.
 

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