Atheism

Do you believe I have a misconception? I am (1) speaking from real experience) and (2) I can speak as a person who once believed in these things.

I can't say that this isn't true - that it hasn't indeed been your experience that has led you to believe that you saying 'I don't believe in any gods' is received by believers as you saying, 'I don't believe you have any value'- but that has never been my experience of the believers that I know.

We only believe in the supernatural beings that promise us things, and typically the ones the promise us the grandest of things.

You have indicated that I am not welcome

I just observed that the thread was about the experiences of atheists, and that that is something a theist would not be able to comment on.

But when you say things like:

Quote:

We only believe in the supernatural beings that promise us things, and typically the ones the promise us the grandest of things.

All I can think is, 'Who's we?' Because it aint me - and I'm supposed to be the believer. I didn't think it could be you - because you say you're an atheist/agnostic (I'm not sure which)...so yeah, who are you speaking for?

And it does make it sound as if you think believers are a little shallow.

And if you really care to know - I could die in the next ten minutes and be buried under the cold, dark earth for eternity never seeing the light of day again, and I'd be happy with what I was given.
My belief is about what I already got - LIFE- THIS life - it's about gratefulness for that and everything I see around me - it's not about piles of treasure and streets paved with gold that I'm just sitting here hankering to reach some sweet day...Jesus! is that what people really believe ALL belief is about and ALL believers believe?

And maybe some do - maybe you did. But don't include ME in that by saying, WE.
Or else I'll have to respond on this atheism thread

And the crack about the unicorns wasn't meant to be complimentary either.
That sounded as if you think all believers are a little stupid.

You may or may not have misconceptions about religion itself - but I think you communicate that you have the misconception that you might be able to peg ALL believers and what they believe.

That could have been cleared up by saying, 'When I was a believer, my friends and I believed thus and such ' or 'I have known people who believed that if I didn't have my belief, I was of no value'

That's all I was trying to say.

Fooball is the result of marketing thats been screwing spectacle.

Look closer aidan. It is us. Literally us. You, aidan. Myself, Art.

Are you saying that you believe in unsubstantiated supernatural beings that offer humans nothing? Name a single one. You cannot. Nobody is interested in the possibility of beings of no consequence, and yet a being of no-consequence is no less possible than one of ultimate signifigance. So why only argue for the existence of the ones that are potent and interested in the activities of a single species (conveniently ours)?

We (society) have never shown the slightest interest in proving that powerless silent invisible beings exist. Groups of humans have over time very passionately defended their belief in specific omnipotent silent invisible beings.

Do you disagree? Even the belief in Santa and the Tooth fairy is based on some sort of material human reward. Do you believe in any powerless beings? What about ultra powerful beings that have no interest in humans? Do you believe in any of those? This isn't personal psychology, it's sociology. When you examine what people believe and don't care to believe, it's not that unexpected.

Oh Great Spirit,
Whose voice I hear in the winds,

And whose breath gives life to all the world,
hear me!
I am small and weak,
I need your strength and wisdom.

Let me walk in beauty, and make my eyes
ever behold the red and purple sunset.
Make my hands respect the things you have made
and my ears sharp to hear your voice.

Make me wise so that I may understand the
things you have taught my people.
Let me learn the lessons you have hidden
in every leaf and rock.
I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother,
but to fight my greatest enemy – myself.
Make me always ready to come to you with
clean hands and straight eyes.
So when life fades, as the fading sunset
my spirit may come to you
without shame.
–Chief Yellow Lark, Lakota Tribe

Religious beliefs are shallow.

It can hardly be considered otherwise. If I was to eat for the first time an apple and then declare it to be the greatest apple ever, such a conclusion would be shallow. If I was to sample a few apples first before making this declaration, it would be less shallow perhaps.

That might sting, but that's how I feel. I can hardly view any belief based solely on emotion and no evidence to support to have the slightest of depth.

A believer doesn't have to believe in great treasure. The simplistic notion that a being exists that is all powerful but we (humans) capture it's full attention is pure egoism and all that is needed for and air of entitlement.

I'm very fond of your posts and I greatly enjoy your insight aidan. In your postings, and from what you've declared about your interest in "misconceptions" about believers, I can't help but feel like you are very much observing the same things that I am and even feeling the same things. I also feel like you wish to somehow stand out as different. You are different in many ways, but in the fundamental ways that define believer, you're very much the same. You may not have radical orthodox (forgive the contradictions in terms. Substitute "extreme" for "radical" if it is better) beliefs, but you do believe in a divine authority. What's the difference? The difference is that even if you don't believe that a god wants you to stone someone, you believe that they could. Do you deny this relationship?

I don't know how to compromise here aidan. I don't think I'm overstating my case. Snood agreed that the belief in god was directly tied into his own self value. He went further than I did in expressing the degree in which he felt the two integrated. Do you disagree? Does your belief in god have no relationship to your self image/value? You are a Christian, yes? Do you disagree with Christian teachings that claim humans are divinely special?

"Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?"

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

No Coward Soul Is Mine (1848) Emily Bronte. (She was born too soon and I was born too late--blame it on the simple twist of fate.)

With wide-embracing love
Thy Spirit animates eternal years,
Pervades and broods above,
Changes, sustains, dissolves, creates, and rears.
There is not room for Death,
Nor atom that his might could render void:
Thou — Thou art Being and Breath,
And what Thou art may never be destroyed.

No coward soul is mine,
No trembler in the world's storm-troubled sphere:
I see Heaven's glories shine,
And Faith shines equal, arming me from Fear.

O God within my breast,
Almighty, ever-present Deity!
Life — that in me has rest,
As I — undying Life — have power in Thee!

* Vain are the thousand creeds
That move men's hearts: unutterably vain;
Worthless as withered weeds,
Or idlest froth amid the boundless main…

* With wide-embracing love
Thy Spirit animates eternal years,
Pervades and broods above,
Changes, sustains, dissolves, creates, and rears.

* Though earth and moon were gone,
And suns and universes ceased to be,
And Thou wert left alone,
Every existence would exist in Thee.

* There is not room for Death,
Nor atom that his might could render void:
Thou — Thou art Being and Breath,
And what Thou art may never be destroyed.

He comes with western winds, with evening's wandering airs,
With that clear dusk of heaven that brings the thickest stars.
Winds take a pensive tone, and stars a tender fire,
And visions rise, and change, that kill me with desire.

I will put forward the argument that the experience of aesthetic meaning in particular, that of literature, of the arts, of musical form, infers the necessary possibility of this 'real presence'. The seeming paradox of a 'necessary posibility' is very precisely, that which the poem, the painting, the musical composition are at liberty to explore and to enact.

Actually, there are animals who piss around an area to stake it out as his own. I'm sure there are other insects and such that does similar things.