Atheism

From my favorite short story...

"For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of."
~Mark Twain, The War Prayer.

A
R
T

That is actually a pretty cool thought experiment. It might go some way to giving a religious person some empathy what it's like to be an atheist in a religious environment. You're not there to change anyone's mind, but you get pretty pissed when they try to change yours. And if you defend your position you risk offending them.

What really throws the balance off, on a thread like this, is when the focus of the posts leads to atheists joking among themselves, or discussing points that they find interesting, in open disregard for the religious beliefs of others. It invariably happens, because the thread is designed for atheists to commune together. It is designed like this for one specific reason: Nowhere else is this assemblage of people going to meet to trade their thoughts. But, invariably, a non-atheist or two or three will come in to put a break to the momentum of that object of humor/interest. Hence, new friction. I suggest that the religious readers treat those passages like an overheard conversation, rather than take it as a challenge or a put-down.

I agree, I think, as a group of committed non believers (or those seriously in doubt), we usually dont hover around the religious threads that are started on A2K. I dont because I have nothing to offer that would fit the premises of the thread. If I did, (like I recall one noteable creationist was starting threads that used Biblical references as evidence), I considered those an open invitation to helthy debate about the science .

If a debate is underway in a religious thread I sometimes put in an opinion, but usually move on after that. I have stated my point of view often enough that most are tired of it being posted anyway.

Your reference to agnostics able to "entertain the subject as thoughtfully and sensitively as possible" inferentially suggests that atheists cannot. I think it pertinent that the subject of this thread is the experience of atheists in life. Yet for the last several pages, religious adherents have been crawling all over the thread.

This is a venue for discussion, so i and many others discuss these topics, often in terms we would not employ in everyday life, in face-to-face conversations. In fact, in everyday life, you couldn't get me to discuss the topic with you--it's not worth the pointless grief it would bring. But on those occasions on which i have discussed it, i do act as diplomatically as possible.

And even here online, i don't go looking for trouble. But when religious types are ranting from the outset, i have no respect, and the gloves are off. When they call for the imposition of their beliefs on others, then the gloves are off. If they get nasty with me, i get nasty right back. When they tell me i can have no morality, or that my life is pointless (the actual title of one thread which ran here for years), the gloves are off.

Earlier in this thread, i pointed out that the topic is the life experiences of atheists, and then pointed out that people of religious conviction were showing up. I then wondered what religious people could contibute to a discussion of the experience of being an atheist. Intrepid took offense, jumped into his '87 Huff, and drove off. He's back as you can see. I know none of us can control thread participation, and don't suggest that anyone should be able to do so.

However, if you show up in the middle of what was at least intended to be a discussion among atheists, and find that you are offended by their opinions of your imaginary friend superstition--whose fault is that?

I don't know why because I didn't know this was true.


We do? I wasn't aware I was so materialistic and such a mercenary...


That's not one of my ideas and the thought of that not being true causes me no anxiety at all.


The unicorns should get a better patron.

I only showed up to offer my impression of why people who have a spiritual belief might get defensive by some of the superior sounding dialogue.

It doesn't offend me and I also believe that it's your right to say what you believe on any thread on this forum.
But I wouldn't assume or generalize as to what you believe everyone else thinks or believes.

I can't relate to any of what you said I, as a believer, must or probably believe, at all.

I for one was a critic because you never posted what I thought was an opinion. I dont know what you think. I tried repeatedly into goading you into telling me. I thought of you as a humble and thoughtful person but the only thing I saw you do was encourage my attackers like a footbal cheer squad. I want to know your opinion...I will give it a lot more weight than some I have read here. As for it being repetitive.....it isnt for me.

You get nasty first, everyone knows that.

I think I (most recently) entered this discussion, one - to ask Setanta a question about whether there were people existing that had never heard of a concept of God; and two – to comment on this statement by
Thomas:


So, as far as religious people sort of intruding into a thread that was intended for atheists’ conversation – that’s my latest excuse.

The side discussion about non-believers posting on religious threads or vice-versa is important, and touches on the whole idea about whether or not the two can coexist peacefully. IMO, yin and yang being what they are, it’s kind of inevitable that the two kinds of discussions cross, clash and intertwine sometimes.

I just don’t accept that it’s inevitable that anyone receives emotional solar plexus shots as a result.

Well, you don't have to look too far for an answer to the question. The most murderous wars in the history of man and today's global unrest can be laid at the feet of people's insecurity about other people's gods.

not at all sure I agree but it makes for an interesting hypothesis.

You think WWI, WWII and all the little hot wars in the cold war were religious based ?

I believe Gen William Abdullah Sherman said something to that effect,
didn't he?

really? I thought it was Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Lash, Well stated.

I didn't mean to exclude atheists. Just an oversight on my part.

As for me, I have been among the nastiest arguers against certain Christian posters here, mostly those who "speak for God/Jesus" or who make definitive statements about religion, lifestyles etc that I find erroneous, damning or just plain mean. I don't really seek to excuse my behavior - but I don't often feel compelled to wade in like I used to. I think my worst exchanges were likely due to personal dislike of the lordly, holier-than-thou attitude of a particular poster. In the face of that, not only did my gloves come off, as you say, but I reached for the brass knuckles...and likely innocent bystanders were scandalized by my rather vicious remarks.

When I saw Snood's appeal for dispassionate discussion between believers and non-believers, I added in without paying attention to the stricter thread topic. I apologize for inadvertently grabbing the wheel.

Maybe we should do a search, smartass, and see how many wars were/are about religion. <---this is my emoticon, signifying smartass as a wry term of endearment

I don't think anyone need apologize for posting here, and that's not what i was saying. I did say that n0ne of us can stop anyone else from posting here. I do find it ironic that in a thread which is about the experience of being atheist, so many religious people appear. Their motivation to post would be interesting to me. Do they feel threatened by the discussion? Do they feel that the mere existence of such a discussion is a threat to what they believe? It was just vagrant curiousity which moved me to bring it up (again).

As for George's feeble attempt at humor, General W. A. Sherman actually said: "The road to heaven is paved with good wars."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Wars-Library-World-History/dp/0816028516

I am really amused by the comment that was made, by the person who "reviewed", but probably did not read the book. I think that his comment clearly illustrates the emotional baggage that many have with regard to their gods!