Atheism

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I always found that claim to be self-serving for the theists.

Sitting in your bunker clutching your rifle and muttering "Oh god, oh god,
oh god . . . " does not constitute evidence of subscribing to theism.

Yep

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@George,

George wrote:

Do atheists ever doubt their atheism?
That is, do they ever wonder whether there may be a god?

I certainly do.

I often hope that there could be one.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

The desire to " close the void" seems to be the psychological trait which gave rise to the invention of deities in the first place.

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@fresco,

"Close the void"?

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@Setanta,

Quote:

I always found that claim to be self-serving for the theists.

In a more appropriate example in my experience:
On a flight over the Cascades that hit tremendous turbulence(even the stews were white as a sheet) I thought we'd had it. The lady behind me was praying in-between her lamentations and I remember playing the odds by muttering"hey if you're up there....see me through."

But Set, I found this quote from a rifleman in WWII to underscore your point:

Quote:

In an interview after he finally received the Bronze Star he was due, World War II vet Chris Christian, 84, said that he lost his faith while hiding from artillery fire.
"They say there are no atheists in foxholes. But as we sat in those holes, praying that God would save us, I thought about the fact that the other side was doing the same thing. And then I wondered if God is just playing some kind of game with us. Pretty much I decided at that point there was no God."

1 Reply

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

" close the void"

que?

1 Reply

I recall being moments away from death, back in the 60s. This car was doing about 110 miles per hour up the mountain highway. When we topped the rise, a strong wind made the car begin hopping side-wise. We were about to smash into the mountain. I said to myself, "I'm dead." That was it. I sat, awaiting the end, with no thoughts of deity. I anticipated an abrupt and final end. Fortunately, the driver made the correct response, and accelerated the car. We pulled out of it and left that wind behind. I have been on borrowed time for many years now.

1 Reply

@panzade,

Quote:

There are no atheists in foxholes" makes a good point. There is great comfort in believing that a deity might save one's ass!

The few times in my life where I could hear the old angel of death wings beating, I was the one who needed to take the proper actions to save myself. There was no time to think of anything other then how the hell I was going to get the plane out of ground effect and avoid hitting some cars park at the end of the field or the protocol for cutting away from a main chute and going to the reserve chute.

I had a feeling in combat it would be similar where you are focus on doing your job not worrying about a possible after-life.

Hell the only non survival thought that I can remember entering my mind in such a situation was once when a 747 pilot was watching my group fly and I found myself hoping I would not crash onto US 1 in front of him.

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@edgarblythe,

Imagine having not 10 seconds to contemplate your demise, but 20 minutes. After your life passes in front of your eyes three times there's still 15 minutes of terror. that's a lot of time to wrestle with mortality...

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@panzade,

Certainly explains that look on your face panzade.

1 Reply

@Eorl,

Good eye Eorl

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@George,

George wrote:

Do atheists ever doubt their atheism?
That is, do they ever wonder whether there may be a god?

I sometimes wonder about a more sci-fi version of the earth having been established by other, possibly more powerful conscious beings that one might equate with gods, yet they will of course have come about in their own natural way. The people alive at the time attempt to pass the story along and all the religions are born from this. My reading of Leviticus certainly supports the idea.

Then I remember to look at the vast amount of evidence for natural processes, and the zero evidence for anything other, and the conclusions are so boringly obvious that the fantasy dissolves.

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@panzade,

Did you think about a deity during that time?

1 Reply

@George,

George wrote:

Do atheists ever doubt their atheism?
That is, do they ever wonder whether there may be a god?

I'm not talking here about the God of Judaism or Christianity or any other
religion, just the concept of god in general.

Repeating myself: Never.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Did you think about a deity during that time?

In trying to remember.. no physical or mental picture...just a momentary doubt in my atheistic resolve.
Then I did the smart thing and turned my head back to calm the lady behind me who was wailing. Concentrating on calming her helped to calm me. I guess sorta like a medic on the battlefield.

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You know guys the universe is strange indeed when you look at the fine details and it surely does not follow a Newtonian model, however this make it more complex not less.

So the idea that the simple minded little Christan 3 in 1 God of the bible would be the force behind the scene is beyond being silly.

In other word I have not a clue in the world if there is anything behind the scene or not and neither do I greatly care.

If there is an after-life of some kind in at most 20 years or so I will know that and I see zero reasons to worry one way or another now over it.

My logic and commonsense however tell me that unless the universe was put together by an insane intelligent there is no punishment waiting for not believing in the Tooth Fairy or the Christan God.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

I don't think any apologies are necessary. However, Kay recently complained about this.

I didn't really. I said I didn't mind a religionist coming in to add to the conversation in a constructive way. What I do mind is name calling and charged arguments. And, of course, proselytizing.

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As to doubting my lack of faith - no. It's kind of hard to doubt something you don't have. I don't remember a time in my life where I did believe in a god - any kind of a supreme being. I love reading sci-fi about advanced civilizations seeding earth and nudging evolution along. But I see that as FICTION.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

By "closure of the void" I refer to the "horror" of contemplating our apparent insignificance in a potentially limitless universe. (Shakespeare's" What is life ? A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing") By "trait" I mean not only our mental contemplation, but the fact that our perceptual apparatus seems to be wired to reject "the void". This is illustrated by our "seeing" the night sky as an enclosed dome, rather than an infinite realm.

3 Replies

@fresco,

Well, I've got no horror to work with here, so I'm not sure I can follow.

2 Replies

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