spendius
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 03:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
I had ed.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:22 pm
Watching a local news program, they did a story of a man who was kicked out of the Boy Scouts. The inference was because he is gay. There was a clip of a Scouts spokesperson saying that gays and atheists are not allowed to be members.
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:31 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
The Boy Scouts of America (BSA), one of the largest private youth organizations in the United States, has policies which prohibit atheists and agnostics from membership in its Scouting program, and prohibit "avowed" homosexual people from leadership roles in its Scouting program as directly violating its fundamental principles and tenets. BSA has denied or revoked membership status or leadership positions of youths and adults for violation of these foundational principles.

The BSA contends that these policies are essential in its mission to instill in young people the values of the Scout Oath and Law.[1][2]

The organization's legal right to have these policies has been upheld repeatedly by both state and federal courts. In Boy Scouts of America v. Dale, the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that as a private organization, the BSA can set its own membership standards. The BSA's policies have been legally challenged but have not been found to constitute illegal discrimination; as a private organization in the United States they have the right to freedom of association,[3] as determined in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale.[4] In recent years, the policy disputes have led to litigation over the terms under which the BSA can access governmental resources including public lands. wiki post


Our local school district no longer supports BSA pack meetings within public buildings (after school use). They have the right to set the requirement for membership to their private club. The public has the right to tell them to hold their meetings elsewhere.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
How many Boy Scouts go around claiming to be atheist or gay? There is nothing on the application form asking if you are atheist? Our Boy scouts hold their meetings in a church, but it is still secular in nature.
failures art
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:40 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

How many Boy Scouts go around claiming to be atheist or gay?

There might be more if once outed they were able to stay.

Intrepid wrote:

There is nothing on the application form asking if you are atheist?

If discovered later however.

Intrepid wrote:

Our Boy scouts hold their meetings in a church, but it is still secular in nature.

I think atheists might see it differently.

A
R
T
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:40 pm
@Intrepid,
None. They aren't admitted into the club. Also, the leadership program requires that the applicant state that he is not homosexual.

Quote:
Position on atheists and agnostics

The Boy Scouts of America's position is that atheists and agnostics cannot participate as Scouts (youth members) or Scouters (adult leaders) in its traditional Scouting programs. According to the Bylaws of the BSA, Declaration of Religious Principle:

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."[2]

During the membership application process and as a requirement to obtain membership, youths and adults are required to subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to agree to abide by the Scout Oath and Law, which include the words, "do my duty to God" and "reverent". Youths are also required to repeat the Scout Oath and Law periodically after being accepted as Scouts. The BSA believes that atheists and agnostics are not appropriate role models of the Scout Oath and Law for boys, and thus will not accept such adults as leaders.[2]
... same link as above...
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:41 pm
@JPB,
Maybe the difference is that you are in the U.S. and I am in Canada.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:42 pm
@failures art,
Let me put it another way. How many Boy Scouts go around proclaiming to be Christian or religious?
failures art
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:43 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Maybe the difference is that you are in the U.S. and I am in Canada.

I'd bet this is a large difference. From what I gather, it seems that the religious politics of Canada are less extreme.

A
R
T
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:44 pm
@Intrepid,
All of them. It's part of the oath taken at every meeting.

Quote:
Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law
A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.


emphasis added
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:45 pm
@Intrepid,
Nope -- the mission of BS Canada is

Quote:
Scouting is based on three broad principles which represent its fundamental beliefs. These include:

• Duty to God: Defined as, The responsibility to adhere to spiritual principles, and thus to the religion that expresses them, and to accept the duties therefrom.
• Duty to Others: Defined as, The responsibility to one's local, national and global community members to promote peace, understanding and cooperation, through
participation in the development of society, respect for the dignity of one's fellow-beings, and protection of the integrity of the natural world.
• Duty to Self: Defined as, The responsibility for the development of oneself to one's full potential physically, intellectually, spiritually and socially.Scouts Canada
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:46 pm
@Intrepid,
There are boy scout troops associated with buddhist churches.
spendius
 
  2  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 04:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah--but they sit under a tree all day going "mmmmmmmmmmmuuumnnn" instead of helping little old ladies to cross the road.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:28 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Maybe the difference is that you are in the U.S. and I am in Canada.

I'd bet this is a large difference. From what I gather, it seems that the religious politics of Canada are less extreme.

A
R
T


They are. Please indulge another question. Do you think that a Catholic Priest (I don't mean to imply all Catholic Priests so that I don't upset any Catholics) would make a good Boy Scout? Given that it is possible he might do inappropriate things with boys even though he is religious.

I only mention this to point out the idiocy of the rules that have been described for the Boy Scouts of America.

[edit]
And, apparently Canada as well.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:34 pm
@Intrepid,
I have not read a positive comment about Catholic priests in many years. I would like to see some statistics that reveal how many of these men may be honest and sincere, who are not considered pedephiles by anybody.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I have not read a positive comment about Catholic priests in many years. I would like to see some statistics that reveal how many of these men may be honest and sincere, who are not considered pedephiles by anybody.


I have no idea. I am just glad that I am not of that denomination. I don't judge them. I just don't understand them.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:36 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
Given that it is possible he might do inappropriate things with boys even though he is religious.

You didn't ask me, but I say this buggering of altar boys is an abuse-of-power thing, not a religion thing. I'm sure it's not the reason the Catholic Church considers the possession of a penis essential for leading a parish.

I see no reason why a future Catholic priest couldn't be a good Boy Scout, or why an active Catholic priest couldn't be a good leader of Boy Scouts.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:39 pm
@Thomas,
Agreed. However, I am referring to those who are of the offensive persuasion.

I only use this analogy because it was mentioned that the Boy Scouts is God and religious based. If that was not so, your post would make more sense to me.

To clarify. What is the difference between an atheist being a Boy Scout and a religious person who might, in your words, be into buggery? Of course, the difference is obvious. I would prefer the atheist in this case.

Personally, I have absolutely nothing against atheists. The only difference between an atheist and me is that I believe in God. Doesn't make me better.....just different.
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 05:57 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
I only use this analogy because it was mentioned that the Boy Scouts is God and religious based. If that was not so, your post would make more sense to me.

Well, but it is. As JPB pointed out, the Boy Scouts consider doing ones "duty to god" an important part of their oath, and reserve the right to evict atheists when found out. (I don't know how frequently it happens though. Acquaintances in New Jersey tell me that a don't-ask-don't-tell approach about atheism is more typical for the organization.)
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Tue 19 Oct, 2010 08:19 pm
@JPB,
I'll be fxked! I was a scout and I never realised they were antiatheist, even in Australia the Scout Promise has this:
Quote:
To do my duty to my God


Nice touch hey? 'MY god'. Hindus, animists, devil worshippers, Baalists, Sikhs, Zoroastrianists, Manichaeists all welcome, but if you don't have a God you're out on your arse.
 

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