america is doomed

You've been saying that for several years and nothing has happened that proves you out.

America remains the premier economic, military and cultural force in the world.

Of course this is not a guaranteed status for all time, and there are nascent superpowers in the wings but predictions of the decline (let alone the fall) of the American Empire are not based in fact.

Everyone knows that no Empire is eternal and so it's not exactly genius to predict the American Empire will eventually decline and fall but predictions for a short term demise are more a perverse wishful thinking (when American) than supportable projection.

We've been treated, over the years, to predictions that the Soviets, the Japanese, a unified Europe and even Brazil would soon supplant the US, and now the sure bets are China and, to a lesser extent India.

This is and has been the work of people desperate to appear historically insightful with a good measure of anti-Americanism thrown into the mix.

China is a military midget compared to the US, and unless our government freezes all military development, and they beggar themselves in the attempt, they cannot ever hope to catch up.

From a cultural standpoint China looks a whole lot more like America than America looks like China, and what nations around the world are attempting to adopt truly Chinese cultural themes?

As for economics, China is fueled by a vast pool of cheap labor and driven by a central government that gets to set all the rules.

For China to supplant the US as the global economic power, it will have to operate by the rules of a global market and right now it's not willing to do so.

On top of this, all of the issues that American doom-sayers cite to support their prediction of America's decline are present in China in spades: Pollution, vast disparity of wealth, restricted personal freedoms, jingoism, etc.

Why does anyone think China will be able to surmount the ills that are eroding America, especially when such ills are far more pronounced in China?

When China becomes a true democracy then I will agree they are clearly next in line, and it won't bother me all that much either.

The American Empire is in no way an empire in the classic sense and that is the reason it will endure for many years to come.

After every Jimmy Carter will come a Ronald Reagan. Most Americans are proud to be Americans and don't experience existential angst because of their pride. Unlike the defeatist Left, they don't fall all over one another to prove they despise their country as much or more than any other.

My life experience tells me that only the personally defeated want to spread that defeat to the greater world around them.
Your life sucks, and so Life sucks.

Nothing is to be gained from not only accepting but embracing decay.

For those of you so disenchanted by America; who believe it is a collapsing cesspit; who long for a time of ignorant fancy, please embrace your disappointment and withdraw into your depression. The less you have to do with the rest of us, the better.

I'm not depressed but I am a realist. Time will prove me out. And do you really think we're the premier economic power in the world ? Are you shitting me?

I don't think there is any question that our country is going down hill, with a future that is not very bright. The big problem is that we are being beaten up relative to manufacturing and, to a lesser degree, the service industry.

One of the strengths of this country was that we had a very large middle class, whose members could live a good life, have a home, two autos, etc., and provide college educations for the children. Included in this middle class were blue-collar workers, who made good wages in manufacture, government, transportation, etc. This is probably going to end in the relatively near future.

I may be wrong, but there may be discord in our future because of the disparity in income and wealth between a tiny percentage of people at the top and the rest of us. I have my doubts that the general public will tolerate our becoming something similar to a South American country, in which a few families own and control almost everything.

Of course the US is the most powerful economy in the world. It is hurting to be sure but so are all others.

It is certainly the largest and the most resilient.

Obama and Co are hell bent on keeping it shackled, but they will be out of power before they can kill the golden goose.

Who would you give the honor to? China? India? The European Union?

China has a very powerful economy but it is founded on cheap labor and intellectual piracy. There is virtually no transparency and it wouldn't be surprising to find it collapse under the weight of central machinations next week.

BTW - Time will indeed prove you out but it will also prove me out when I "predict" the demise of the Empire that replaces the American version.

You and I will be long dead by the time a different global power replaces the US.

There's no question?

Well there we go, shut down the thread.

Doomsayers like you have been predicting the demise of America since it's very beginning.

It wasn't that long ago that Time Magazine (among many others) were predicting that the US would soon be playing second fiddle to Japan.

How did that pan out?

One of the reasons it didn't and why Time thought it would was the lack of transparency in the Japanese economy, and the degree to which the central government manipulated it.

It is very silly to predict the end of the American middle class in any time frame than doesn't exceed at least 100 years, and as for the literal class warfare you predict in the short term...Ha!

Even if we agree that there is a problematic disparity of incomes in the US, only in left-wing dreams and right-wing nightmares will it result in anything that even looks like revolution.

You really need to gain some perspective and establish a perspective that is based on history and global conditions rather than the blather of Noam Chomsky and Danny Glover.

That sounds familiar. Add genocide and slavery and hoist up the old red white and blue. Which is not to say I'm not glad to be here but off the high horse Tex.

the problems are that we have not had an economic plan, and that we can not currently execute a plan even if we had one because Washington is broken. We left the economy to the markets to decide where we go, and we got seriously fucked as a result.

We still have something like a 30% lunatic fringe that believe in free markets, and while that number is falling getting America fixed is going to be a laborious process because so many are so incapable of seeing the obvious when reality contradicts their cherished beliefs.

Not too long ago we were the biggest creditor nation, and had a fabulous balance of trade. We are now the biggest debtor nation and have a huge negative balance of trade. I don't see that being reversed to any big extent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35192016/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/

That's a pretty lame response Bipo

One doesn't have to be an American jingoist to recognize China's vulnerabilities.

I think though that it helps to be a self-loathing American to ignore hem.

If you don't believe China's economy is on shaky ground, but rather a powerhouse poised to supplant America's please explain how China will overcome the very problems that signal to you and your friends the demise of the US.

It's pretty damned simplistic to hang a pro-China opinion on the fact that thanks to cheap labor and virtually no inhibiting governmental regulations focused on safety, quality, and labor welfare they are the manufacturing center of the world.

Put an American face on the Chinese situation and you would be screaming to the high heavens how it couldn't possibly be sustainable.

Confidence in free markets is lunacy?

And assuming your ridiculous assertion to be true, since when is 30% of any group considered a "fringe?"

Central economic planning is what we need? To quote Bipo, "Are you shitting me?"

How did that work out in the FORMER Soviet Union?

How did it work out in pre-Deng China?

Am I missing attempted sarcasm?

Well it never will if the people you vote for keep getting elected

I've been lucky to associate with good doctors but I don't dispute that some are otherwise engaged.

I agree with all else you say, eb, but that won't be a surprise to you. Just a vote from me. Thanks for putting it into one post.

How can you ask such a stupid question with as many times as I have said that I am a socialist? My side has won almost all of the battles over the last ten years, events keep proving socialism to be worthy of serious consideration, and the world is certainly moving closer to it.

My brand of socialism does not depend upon central planning from the government, but it does depend upon marginalizing all individuals who do not profess that the many matter more than the one, or the few, AND who back that up with acting like they believe it. The failure of the Soviet system has no bearing upon socialism as I see it.

When?

I hate to break this to you hawkeye, but I'm not a student of your posts and so don't have any familiarity with whatever crazy notions you may have about economics.

Thus the "stupid" question.

With that question I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I can see that it was a wasted gift.

Your brand of Socialism doesn't require central planning? Interesting.

So I suppose it contemplates the delegation of economic decisions to local bureaucrats. How is that supposed to work?

Your name seems to indicate that you are a human penis.

I wish I knew. I hope that corrective actions would be taken that would negate the need for this.

Okay, I admit I'm lost. You say that not long ago we were the biggest creditor nation. I ask you when, and you say you have no idea.

58 replies and 811 views for a topic that was obviously primitive humour.