15
   

So much for our aid being welcome

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 04:55 am
@contrex,
Contrex the Germans care about property rights after all unless you was a Jew or some other unclass at least.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 11:02 pm
Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- As Twitter feeds light up with "Text HAITI" and celebrities host telethons and wear support ribbons at award ceremonies, the money to assist earthquake survivors in Haiti is pouring in.

Major charities have pulled in more than $380 million for relief efforts as of Friday, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy, a newspaper covering nonprofit organizations.


But despite the record amounts raised, the flurry of giving is already starting to fade. At the American Red Cross, donations are down by more than 50%. And that decline could mean more tragedy for Haiti.

"That's really the question: How long people's attention spans will last before moving on to the next thing," said Stacy Palmer, editor of the Chronicle of Philanthropy. "This is the really critical stage."


http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/25/news/international/haiti_giving/index.htm?hpt=T1

or maybe a significant number of people are deciding that throwing money at Haiti is not a good idea. A lot of money has been wasted by an unorganized relief effort, and money alone will not solve what ails Haiti.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 01:10 pm
Quote:
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti " After two weeks of often-chaotic food distribution, the United Nations announced plans on Saturday for a new coupon-based system that aims to give rice to 10,000 Haitians a day at each of 16 locations around Port-au-Prince.

The new program " with the first coupons delivered Saturday, and food on Sunday " ends what officials described as the “quick and dirty” initial phase of emergency response, but it is also an admission of what Haitians have been saying for days: that the system had become a failure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/world/americas/31haiti.html?hp

as I recall, I called the aid effort "a cluster ****" around day three, so ya. Nice to see the officials figuring it out....eventually.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:18 pm
Breaking news: "after a huge catastrophe there are logistical problems! Monday morning quarterbacks and their fragile superiority complexes comment on this remarkable surprise after the break."
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:22 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

Breaking news: "after a huge catastrophe there are logistical problems! Monday morning quarterbacks and their fragile superiority complexes comment on this remarkable surprise after the break."
yeah, I'm amazed.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:22 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Breaking news: "after a huge catastrophe there are logistical problems! Monday morning quarterbacks and their fragile superiority complexes comment on this remarkable surprise after the break."


if you think that all of the powers of the world, with all of the wealth that they have had at their disposal, should not have been able to do better than what has been done over the last two weeks, then you are guilty of having extraordinary low expectations for human capacity.

Are you that jaded Robert? Why do you feel the need to insult those of us who have more faith in mankind than you do?
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
if you think that all of the powers of the world, with all of the wealth that they have had at their disposal, should not have been able to do better than what has been done over the last two weeks, then you are guilty of having extraordinary low expectations for human capacity.


Of course they can do better, that you delight in point it out in such unsurprising situations to try to validate your earlier positions is what I find stupid. The tsk tsking and all about chaos in a disaster zone just strikes me as a comical bit of Monday morning quarterbacking.

Quote:
Are you that jaded Robert? Why do you feel the need to insult those of us who have more faith in mankind than you do?


I have plenty of faith in humanity. This coming from a guy saying aid to Haiti is wasted rings as hollow as you know it to be.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 05:40 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
The tsk tsking and all about chaos in a disaster zone just strikes me as a comical bit of Monday morning quarterbacking


the tsk tsking is not about the chaos, it is about the poor performance of those who are acting as the agents for the collective in assisting the Haitians. My position re not helping the Haitians was re the long term rebuilding, and was conditional. I said in fact that we need to help them with short term humanitarian aid irregardless. So there is no contradiction when I slam those running the aid effort for shoddy work.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:04 pm
Quote:
UNITED NATIONS " The fact that Haiti was mired in dysfunction well before the earthquake, despite having received more than $5 billion in aid over about two decades, is fueling a contentious debate on whether a grand reconstruction plan can finally fix the country or would be doomed to repeat previous failures.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/world/americas/31reconstruct.html?hp

and yet we cant get the debate rolling here at a2k because we lack a critical mass of free thinkers. So much the pity....
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 02:38 am

"Our aid being welcome"? Heres a piece from the paper yesterday which avers that we have taken far more out of Haiti that was ever put in.

The west owes Haiti a bailout. And it would be a hand-back, not a handout
The Caribbean nation should be reimbursed for centuries of punitive treatment and brutality by the outside world


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/31/west-haiti-bailout-reimbursed-brutality
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 03:55 am
@McTag,
Quote:
nation should be reimbursed for centuries of punitive treatment and brutality by the outside world


Sorry but I disagree they should be help because they are our fellow men women and children that we share this planet with who are now in great needs and no other reason is needed o offer aid to them.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 11:07 am
Quote:
EditorialHaiti, Two Months Later Sign in to Recommend
Published: March 11, 2010
With every day that passes in the mud and rubble of Haiti, the failures of the relief effort are heartbreaking. There are four main strands to the campaign to make sure 1.2 million homeless people are sheltered and safe as the weather turns fierce. All are inadequate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/opinion/12fri1.html?hp

Re Haiti and attemps to "fix" Haiti: Situation normal-all fucked up.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 12:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
And you point is what?

That we should turn our backs on a few million people that need help to survive the next few months perhaps?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 12:08 pm
@BillRM,
my point is that the aid project has been poorly done, I said so after the first few days, and nothing has changed. My secondary point is that I was once again correct in my observations, what was a radical heretic view when I said it originally on a2k is now the conventional wisdom from the experts.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 12:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Poorly done or not poorly done lives are still being save as a results of the help that is being given.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 01:57 pm
@McTag,
Perhaps MM might consider re-titling the thread, McTag, something on the order of,

So much for our aid being aid

Those who haven't a clue of the rapacious nature of their own country, and those unwilling to learn or admit even when it's put full face in front of them, are doomed to errantly and ignorantly defend it.

Those who do know and say nothing, a large number of people, are really not even human.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 02:36 pm
@JTT,
Lovely however we live in the real world and the aid no matter how poorly done when compare to the ideal is saving one hell of a lot of men, women and children lives.

So once more what is the point because we can not have an ideal situation we should walk away from the problem?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 02:57 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So once more what is the point because we can not have an ideal situation we should walk away from the problem?


I take it you are not a believer in learning from your mistakes? Hoping to do better the next time?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 03:48 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Lovely however we live in the real world and the aid no matter how poorly done when compare to the ideal is saving one hell of a lot of men, women and children lives.

So once more what is the point because we can not have an ideal situation we should walk away from the problem?


I don't have the foggiest notion how you derived these ideas from what I wrote, Bill.
0 Replies
 
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 12:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

people say exactly what they really believe on the web, because social coercion is difficult to apply.

that's a fact so why is a2k so far to the left, who dedcides these things around here?
 

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