So much for our aid being welcome

@Brandon9000,

no, my position is that Haiti is a lost cause until and unless the Haitians decide that they want better for themselves. Those who refuse to conform to standards of the civilized world should be deprived of the rewards of civilization. fairness demands that those who do the work receive the rewards.

as a general rule Haitians dont want to do the work, ergo....

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@Brandon9000,

By 'we', you mean you and Obama.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

What I need to see right now in order to come to the conclusion that Haiti is worthy of my money/time/sympathy are

1) demands for a functioning government

2) a willingness among the people to work full time rebuilding the country, in return for foreign aid supplied paychecks. No more whining about poverty and lack of jobs, there is enough work for everybody for years to come

3) forbidding the building of grossly inferior structures, and an enforcement program that works

4) losing the sense of entitlement to foreign aid, showing recognition that other humans are going above and beyond the call to help them

5) a government in place that care more about helping the people than protecting their traditional graft networks.

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@hawkeye10,

Seems to be the often quoted Judaeo"Christian tradition in the USA ...

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

What about you Germans? After WW2 did you guys wait around for the Americans to rebuild Germany? NO you did not, you got to work and did the best you could, the American help was welcomed but was bonus. Germany was dirt poor and traumatized and had just been through 1.5 years of bombing and death, but you worked anyways......no excuses.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Germany was dirt poor and traumatized and had just been through 1.5 years of bombing and death

Your knowledge of history, evidently, is as poor as your understanding of world issues.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Which part do you quibble with, and where is your evidence?

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@hawkeye10,

don't you think it might be useful to compare education levels of germans
post WW 2 to those still prevailing in haiti ?
i imagine you would not want to blame the children of haiti for their limited education .

without education there is not much hope for the future of haiti and its people , i'd think .

1 Reply

@hamburgboy,

what is the connection between levels of formal education and willingness to work?

there is none, you are throwing in a red herring.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

What you need to see in order to decide to alleviate human suffering is completely up to you. For some people, to understand that people are suffering from a natural disaster is reason enough. Some demand that their generosity be rewarded with fawning gratitude and if the recipient is not singing hosannas then help will not be forthcoming. Some see help as only worthwhile if it meets their objectives for personal or political gain.

This disaster is probably not for you since the Haitians don't meet your criteria and I doubt they will be able to meet your conditions for aid in time for your aid to have any value. Maybe the next earthquake. Or the last one. I'm sure your donations to China relief were well received since they surely qualified. Did the Gulf Coast meet your requirements?

1 Reply

@engineer,

we should offer immediate humanitarian aid regardless, I am talking about extended efforts to help rebuild the country, and considering that Haiti was a piss poor excuse for a country before in reality we are talking about building haiti for the first time.

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@hawkeye10,

many haitians are severely undernourished .
they'd be grateful for a " red herring " .

do you not have any idea what living conditions in haiti are ???

1 Reply

@hamburgboy,

do you have any idea of how much money has already been promised to haiti due to this earthquake? If this society cant feed the people after so many big checks come in then we need to revisit occupying the "country", because at that point it is a failed state.

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This seems like a distraction.

There is lots of aid that is making it to Haiti that is being generated by both conservatives and liberals. That aid is making it to people that need it and I imagine that almost all of them are very thankful for the help of foreign nations (not just the US). I'm not prepared to take this instance to mean ANYTHING at all about what we should be doing or not doing anymore.

I say, let's just keep trying to help people and not get distracted.

T
K
O

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@hawkeye10,

JTT explained to you before, just why Haiti is a "failed state". If you read what he wrote and can understand it, you wouldn't write such garbage.

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@McTag,

other peoples and countries have faced adversities and abuse, but don't collapse under the strain. Haitians should be held accountable for their actions, and lack of actions. That Haiti was be one of the poorest, most corrupt, and laziest societies on this earth was not forced upon them. They choose this way of living.

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I'm sure every concveivable reaction to our aid, that of other nations, and everything else cam be found among the millions of Haitien people. That, however, has nothing to do with our moral obligation to help them following this awful disaster. This is a fairly fundamental human issue that involves all nations with a connection to Haiti.

There was an interesting table of the contributions by various nations in the Wall Street Journal the other day. I can't attest to its accuracy or completeness, however a couple of cases stand out;

Venezuela, despite the loud assertions of Socialist solidarity by the ever noisy and self-promoting clown Hugo has done relatively little to aid their neighbor.

France, which has a fairly long colonial history in Haiti has done no more than other continental European countries, and far less than the UK.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Perhaps Hawkeye was dismayed that a group of people are as screaming
about how bad we are even while we're in the very act of pending money to help them.

There is no jurisdiction for that.
The money is the property of those Americans who earned it -- not aliens.

That is STOLEN money.

David

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@McTag,

well said , mctag !!!

a link to :

paradise lost - haiti without trees

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1103/Steber/Steber.html

no food , no water , no trees and NO SOIL ( not enough soil )

a snippit from the article :

Quote:

Later that evening, it rained long and hard. Soil mixed with huge stones washed down the hillsides. The roads. all of which lead to the harbor and slums lining the port, became impassable. People abandoned their cars and found them the next day crashed into the walls of’ the national cemetery, where bodies had been washed out of their caskets. People walked gingerly around gaping graves to get a look at the decomposed corpses.

In the slums, people stood on their beds during the night of rain as it swelled the canals of sewage that run alongside their shanties. The mixture of rocks and mud and sewage flooded their dirt floors by nearly a foot. Babies cried and already-exhausted people who desperately needed sleep didn’t get any. Rats swam where they could and otherwise drowned. Even after the water subsided, the mud remained and people sank into it up to their knees as they made their way to their jobs the next day.

Before the rainstorm was over, Haiti had lost tons of precious topsoil from the hills surrounding Port-au-Prince, along with thousands of gallons of water reserves. Some people drowned in the deluge. Here, as if in some evil pact, the problems of deforestation and lack of clean water played out their drama in which the Haitians were caught as unhappy victims.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

By 'we', you mean you and Obama.

As though it weren't obvious, I mean we Americans.

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So much for our aid being welcome

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