82
   

Proof of nonexistence of free will

 
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2011 09:32 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

This video is saying exactly what I have been saying upon nothingness, as expected guigus did not understood it properly...


It is you that didn't understand the video properly. This video describes precisely your whole attitude towards nothing, your "terror of nothing," your "put down on nothing, on everything to do with nothing, everything associated with nothing."

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
you see the only application we have for nothingness which is emptiness goes attached to space and time not true nothingness which of course it can´t be...


The whole video is an assertion of nothingness, of its value and of its power. You couldn't have misunderstood it more completely. Please watch it again.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
therefore the only practical meaning on nothingness addresses the absence of things that are possible like this cigar or that chair that may or may not be here...


The video says explicitly: "nothing is more fertile than emptiness," as also that "you can't have something without nothing": you couldn't be more mistaken.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
which in turn excludes non possible non conceivable things like squared circles which are meaningless once the word alone does not point to anything...


So squared circles are not absent? How can something be not absent without being present? Your incapacity to make any sense explains your incapacity to extract any sense from that video.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
..."Squared circles" are not affirmed nor negated one simply does n´t know what the hack the expression is talking about...


Then how mathematicians could spend centuries trying to figure out if squared circles were indeed possible, with many of them believing they were? Why they took so long to finally prove their impossibility? Most importantly, how could they prove the mathematical impossibility of a squared circle if it were meaningless? Again, you couldn't be more mistaken.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
what is negated in fact is that to such expression there is anything that corresponds...


What is negated is the existence of a squared circle, or its possibility: a squared circle is hence a nonexistent (not existent), or an impossibility (not possible). A "square circle" is more than a simple "expression": it is an impossible geometrical figure---to which that expression owes its meaning, or corresponds.

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
the expression which exists in English,"squared circles" does not correspond to any meaningful thing that we can conceive off...guigus of course confused the word with the thing, but that is no surprise coming from someone who states what he states...


Tell me: how could I be confusing "the word with the thing" if, according to you, that word "does not correspond to any meaningful thing"? To what "thing" are you referring to precisely?
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2011 10:00 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

This problem further develops into a psychological problem upon the working of human mind which originates the apparent paradox...that is when we have an expression that fails to correspond to anything we falsely contrast it with a temporal and spatial void when in fact there is nothing to contrast with...


You don't really think, do you?

1) The only way we could contrast a meaningless expression with anything else would be by contrasting its bunch of letters, or its noise, with other bunches of letters, or with other noises: we could never compare its meaning (nothing) with another meaning (spatial void)---not with an expression without any meaning.

2) If there is nothing to contrast something with, then the only possible outcome is that no contrast ever happens. If any contrast ever happens, then there must be something to be contrasted against, even if it is nothing---which would make nothing into something.

3) Isn't a spatial or temporal void nothing? If not, then what (in the heck) is it?

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
that is we say that a supposed something is absent when truthfully there is no such something nor to be absent or present in the first place...


1) Then how could we suppose it to be absent (in the first place)?

2) How could something be neither absent nor present (in the first place)?

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
nothingness it is so self contradictory as a concept that we immediately feel the compulsory need to make it something which we then call the void...


1) Why didn't you agree when I said nothingness was a contradictory concept? Could it be that for you to agree with anything it must have been said by you?

2) How could nothingness be a contradictory concept without being also something? But then our "compulsory need to make it something" would always arrive too late: it is already something---which is precisely why it is contradictory (in the first place).

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
but if we are capable of some reasoning


We?

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
we easily can understand


We?

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
that such void is far from being nothingness once it corresponds to space and time...


So all this crap (sorry, crap) was to conclude that space and time are their own absence? But then being and nothingness are the same! Congratulations, you are so badly mistaken that you ended up being correct!
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2011 10:31 pm
@guigus,
1 - Something is contrasted with space which is not nothing guigus...
2 - A meaningless expression is not to be contrasted, we do it out of a compulsory need to make some sense out of it...
3 - Who said there is nothing to contrast something with...so far I said there is space a void to contrast stuff not nothing...
4 - it is not a spatial temporal void it is a spatial and temporal reality which we call a void...a spatial and temporal void would be the absence of space and time, learn to read !
5 - Something, very obviously, is either present or absent, it is not the case that a squared circle corresponds to any something ! (I don´t understand what "squared circles" even means, nor do you)
6 - Nothingness it is nothing, how much more contradictory do you want it to be ?

Finally I seriously suggest before you post your next reply you actually take the time to read what I am saying instead of making a straw man at every evidence I present you with...(otherwise you will be left talking to yourself as usual)
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 05:15 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

1 - Something is contrasted with space which is not nothing guigus...
2 - A meaningless expression is not to be contrasted, we do it out of a compulsory need to make some sense out of it...
3 - Who said there is nothing to contrast something with...so far I said there is space a void to contrast stuff not nothing...
4 - it is not a spatial temporal void it is a spatial and temporal reality which we call a void...a spatial and temporal void would be the absence of space and time, learn to read !
5 - Something, very obviously, is either present or absent, it is not the case that a squared circle corresponds to any something ! (I don´t understand what "squared circles" even means, nor do you)
6 - Nothingness it is nothing, how much more contradictory do you want it to be ?

Finally I seriously suggest before you post your next reply you actually take the time to read what I am saying instead of making a straw man at every evidence I present you with...(otherwise you will be left talking to yourself as usual)


Please quote what you are referring to (take my example) so people (including yourself) can understand what you are talking about and see that you remember (which has not been the case) what you said yourself before. For example, in this last post, by saying that "Something is contrasted with space which is not nothing" you appear to be answering to my comments on your previous assertion that "when we have an expression that fails to correspond to anything we falsely contrast it with a temporal and spatial void when in fact there is nothing to contrast with...", in which, instead of "something" being "contrasted with space," what we have is a meaningless expression being contrasted with "spatial void." So, to avoid such a mess, please quote what you are commenting on right above your comments---perhaps then you notice the mess before posting it.

Most importantly, read you again my previous two posts, in which I carefully (an patiently) address each "point" you made, then post a decent answer, by following my recommendations above. I will not waste my time addressing the rest of your post, for obvious reasons.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 05:28 am
Despite not being a Hegelian, for those who are surprised by my ideas here is the beginning of the first chapter of the Science of Logic by Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel:

Quote:
Being, pure being, without any further determination. In its indeterminate immediacy it is equal only to itself. It is also not unequal relatively to an other; it has no diversity within itself nor any with a reference outwards. It would not be held fast in its purity if it contained any determination or content which could be distinguished in it or by which it could be distinguished from an other. It is pure indeterminateness and emptiness. There is nothing to be intuited in it, if one can speak here of intuiting; or, it is only this pure intuiting itself. Just as little is anything to be thought in it, or it is equally only this empty thinking. Being, the indeterminate immediate, is in fact nothing, and neither more nor less than nothing.

Nothing, pure nothing: it is simply equality with itself, complete emptiness, absence of all determination and content---undifferentiatedness in itself. In so far as intuiting or thinking can be mentioned here, it counts as a distinction whether something or nothing is intuited or thought. To intuit or think nothing has, therefore, a meaning; both are distinguished and thus nothing is (exists) in our intuiting or thinking; or rather it is empty intuition and thought itself, and the same empty intuition or thought as pure being. Nothing is, therefore, the same determination, or rather absence of determination, and thus altogether the same as, pure being.


For those interested in reading further:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hl/hlbeing.htm
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:27 am
@guigus,
So where is the confusion up there ?
As I said we can contrast stuff, existent things with space and through time and even with other stuff while a meaningless expression although it obviously can´t refer to anything we compulsively tend to contrast it with the void (space) to assert that somehow it refers...we say that the expression is on/about a thing which does n´t exist in our Universe, but bottom line we just have an empty expression nothing else...so what is it that you did n´t understood in there ?
Do you have any other joke to brag about ?
I wonder what that anarchist mind of yours will bring up next ? oh boy...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:46 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
...secondly I don´t give a dime on whatever Hegel or any other Philosopher thought he knew upon anything until I myself revise it and think about it, how else would I be doing Philosophy, based on their word ? lol...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:49 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
The "undefined" needs defining therefore its something not nothingness...maybe he meant the undefinable instead ! Laughing

...as for Being, any form is pure being, what else would it be ?
0 Replies
 
shanemcd3
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 04:52 pm
sure, nothingness is everything, and black is white, and up is down, what nonsense
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 05:27 pm
@shanemcd3,
Yes the ideal of education falls short...some people is beyond any hope....
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 06:44 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

So where is the confusion up there ?
As I said we can contrast stuff, existent things with space and through time and even with other stuff while a meaningless expression although it obviously can´t refer to anything we compulsively tend to contrast it with the void (space) to assert that somehow it refers...we say that the expression is on/about a thing which does n´t exist in our Universe, but bottom line we just have an empty expression nothing else...so what is it that you did n´t understood in there ?
Do you have any other joke to brag about ?
I wonder what that anarchist mind of yours will bring up next ? oh boy...


Is there nobody else to discuss with in this forum besides this imbecilic "Fil Albuquerque"? Gosh, what a disaster! Anybody else, please?
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 06:44 pm
@shanemcd3,
shanemcd3 wrote:

sure, nothingness is everything, and black is white, and up is down, what nonsense


What I am saying not only makes sense, but is also rigorously correct. However, it is not easy to understand, as you testify so well.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 06:51 pm
@guigus,
Obviously no-thing of course means exactly every-thing evidently...its all very logical...or should I say that its intrinsic logic its a non logic which is all the logic once the non beingness of such logic is in itself logical and ****... Laughing
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:07 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
It really is hard for allot of us to understand this! I only understand a degree of what you all are talking about.

One of the problems that I see is a square circle. Guigus says that a square circle has to be a being if I understand him correctly but from my view point they are two separate objects that have two different meanings and are defined by their shapes which makes them impossible to be one.

Maybe I misunderstand what he was saying!

Is there any way that you two can put your differences in laymen s terms?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:31 pm
@reasoning logic,
OK let me put it in an easier problem...can you think on a line which is not neither straight nor curve and yet is still a line ?
Yeah...It does n´t exist !
...no matter that you still want to call it an X line...

...you want an advise ? ...forget guigus he is nuts !
(and so are we in keeping addressing him)
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:32 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

It really is hard for allot of us to understand this! I only understand a degree of what you all are talking about.

One of the problems that I see is a square circle. Guigus says that a square circle has to be a being if I understand him correctly but from my view point they are two separate objects that have two different meanings and are defined by their shapes which makes them impossible to be one.


This is not only your "view point": a squared circle indeed consists in "two separate objects that have two different meanings and are defined by their shapes which makes them impossible to be one." This is what a squared circle is: it is impossible. Its impossibility was proved mathematically in 1882. What I am saying is that, precisely because it is impossible, it must exist. Why? Because its impossibility is the negation of its possibility, and its nonexistence is the negation of its existence: if it were just and impossibility or just a nonexistence, then its negation would be the negation of that impossibility and of that nonexistence, hence the affirmation of its possibility and of its existence. This is logic, there is no discussing it. And since it is logic, it requires discipline: you must recognize that because a squared circle is impossible it must exist, even despite your knowing it cannot. This is called a contradiction. However, this is not a contradiction that arises from some mistake of yours: it arrives from the terms of the problem themselves---there is nothing you can (or should) do to avoid it.

reasoning logic wrote:
Maybe I misunderstand what he was saying!


Well, I have explained above what I am saying: perhaps this time you get it.

reasoning logic wrote:
Is there any way that you two can put your differences in laymen s terms?


Well, read the above...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:43 pm
@guigus,
Not trying to be mean but could you use this logic with say a camel and a tree, lets call it a camel tree would it also have to exist?

That is a camel-tree must exist?
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Not trying to be mean but could you use this logic with say a camel and a tree, lets call it a camel tree would it also have to exist?

That is a camel-tree must exist?


You got it: since this is a feature of negation itself, it doesn't matter what we are talking about: if it is impossible or nonexistent, then it must be possible and existent. Our task from this point on is to better understand that contradiction.

Which we can do by realizing that, just like they all must exist for the same reason, they also exist in the same way: the general way of absolute being, hence of absolute nothingness---which Hegel described so well in the opening of his Logic.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:53 pm
@guigus,
I thought I did but you seemed as if you may have had something that I was not aware of.
See what being open minded can do at times, "get you thinking about things that you all ready know. but I did learn something that you were talking about and that was nothingness is something or at least something like that! Laughing
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2011 07:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

I thought I did but you seemed as if you may have had something that I was not aware of.
See what being open minded can do at times, "get you thinking about things that you all ready know. but I did learn something that you were talking about and that was nothingness is something or at least something like that! Laughing


This thing has two parts:

1) The nonexistence of a squared circle consists in the negation of its existence, so without that existence this negation becomes the negation of a nonexistence, hence the affirmation whatever does not exist (a double negation is an affirmation).

2) An impossible existence is absolute being or absolute nothingness.

Did you understand at least the first part?
 

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