Spare the rod . . .

That's because it isn't from the bible at all.

Cycloptichorn

Indeed. The Bible would require that you have your disobedient chidren stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ) All those correspondents dumping on Cycloptichorn in this thread may want to keep in mind just what a softie he is on the issue.

(Proverbs 13:24)(King James Version)
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

(Proverbs 13:24) (New King James Version)
He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Your right in the king James version it doesn't say word for word ,spare the rod spoil the child but spareth his rod is pretty close. It was my own arrogance and ignorance to convey the versus to you the way I did. I have remedied that now, I should have been more precise in the first place.

You can interpret the Proverbs 13:24 line of the bible any way you like, and I am sure you will. People see the world as they are and not as it is. To see any subject with truly objective eyes you would have to remove all your own experience and of course that is impossible. But it's still a hard sell to make this line in the bible mean anything other then to at least suggest parents should use a rod to discipline their child. If you find yourself manipulating the sentence to fit your vision of how the issue should be handled according to you then your not taking advise from the bible your only hearing that which supports your own way of thinking and if you know best you should really become the new messiah and write a new bible.

You have to at least admit that some people could reasonable say that this line in the bible advocates spanking a child. To deny those people the right to reasonable use physical discipline would therefore be a direct conflict to their practice of religion. And back to my original point, America was founded because of those seeking religious freedom. To take the right of a parent to in act corporal punishment is unconstitutional.

The bottom line is that there are some many issues like this that are really the crux of living. If all the answers fit in to a nice neat box we would all just follow them and anyone doing anything else would clearly be wrong. These are the questions that make life personal, passionate, and interesting to ponder. While anyone persons answer my not be yours don't get so upset about it because no one will ever know for sure the answer that will be right for everyone on this subject but we can hope that you will know the right answer for yourself and your children.

What ever gave you the idea that you could come onto A2K and in your second post say such malarkey as there is no cookbook to life, that life is not black and white but rather shades of grey??!!

What a lot of nerve you have...

We don't live in Biblical times and see no reason why "spare the rod, spoil the child" should be considered when disciplining a child. I was whipped as a youngster and, because of that experience, don't think corporal punishment appropriate, at all.

My oldest son was extremely "stubborn" and the closest I ever came to physical punishment was, when around 12 or so, he continually refused to "go-to-your-room!" when I demanded he do that. So, even with his buddy standing right there, I laid my hands on both his shoulders and shoved him down the hall and into his room. Now, this kid was strong and he was angry - red face and all - but I managed, somehow, to get him into his room. So, both of us were red-faced and sweating as that door closed. No sooner did it shut than he slammed it open and ran out. Well, I got him to do as I said, that's all I thought. His friend's mom told me later that her son said, "You know something, David's mother is pretty strong."I laughed about this for years, still do. When he was younger he would stay in his room but would throw all his toys (big trucks and all) at the door. He just grew out of these behaviors.

I whacked the younger son a few times when he lit a match in the garage, the neighbor's little girl standing right there. He never lit another match, which he had been doing for a short spell.

I recall reading that the American Indians didn't punish their kids, but would tease them into changing the stupid behavior.

Well my parents didnt spank at all growing up and instead they would ignore or ground me to no end! I ended up frusterated in my scope at that age, bitter, bratty, and MEAN. Finally when i was 11 i went to my Uncles for a week. He believed in the belt over the Jeans, and never in anger either, explained the situation to me and why he didnt like what i did. i was actually relieved because then it was over with and i learned alot about empathy, the feelings of others, and how to be mildly polite! The other thing with my behavior pretty much in check we had alot more time to do fun things like play catch and meet other kids in his area. It hurt getting the licks but not for more than 5 minutes after. He was never shaming, guilting ya, or making you feel bad. It was just matter of fact, i appologized, and he helped me move on. Besides, when i did grow into an adult i understood my place in the business team without whining, grudging, or delaying my work.

Wrong on both counts. Using weapons to beat your kids is indeed codified in Wisconsin (and I'd wager in California too, without even looking.)

However, I don't believe for one moment you place any stock in the "Law" in formulating your opinion. Until recently, it was legally permissible to beat your wife. In many (most?) of the world's jurisdictions; it still is. Does that make it right? Would such a law have any bearing on your personal moral code?

I'm also curious: Are there any hypothetical situations where you would consider it okay to use corporal punishment on your wife?

Nope.

I would say that spanking doesn't require a belt, if that's what concerns you; my mom had a right arm that could knock out a horse.

Cycloptichorn

I'm going to assume that "nope" covers all three of my questions. (Which is good because I was hoping they were nearly rhetorical.)

I'm also curious. Are you aware of the reams of statistics that indicate Domestic Violence is cyclical in nature... as in passed down from the father to the son?

And assuming you are; how would you separate this simple truth from the fact that child abuse follows the same tendency and in fact is more than 10 times more likely to occur in homes where spousal DV is also present?

how about from mother to daughter?? I have long realized that you hate men but you are really piling on your male bashing now.

I believe there are. Times a good spanking is called.for. - in my view. Corporal punishment should be used with caution. - Depending. On the age of the child. I believe. A good hand spanking. Compltely.Bare. Would serve. A good purpose I believe. For older. Children. - young adults. -a good paddling. Across the. Ass. Also. Can be useful. -In all situations. One has to be careful. You don't want. To break the skin and cause. Bleeding under any conditions.

Yeah, I agree with you too... I'm a proof of that. I'm a 16 YO boy from India and I still get spanked. I really works. For me its humiliation more than the pain. Yet all the times I deserved it

I've been looking for a place to add this comment. This is as good a place as any I suppose. There are lot's of parent writter's on here saying that the child should call or threaten to call Children's Protective Services should his/her parent touches them. The system doesn't work. Despite any abuses at home foster care when the foster parents have no investment is almost always worse. However, that is not what I wanted to say. I wanted to bring up a threat my own child made at the age of 12. The boy threatened to call CPS. It was the first and last threat the kid ever made of that nature because I forced him to make the call because as an adult the Child is not in charge of the home. I am. I voluntarily terminated parental rights. He ran away from foster care and apparently spent years on the street. It was the best move I ever made honestly. When the child tries to change the dynamic between the adult child relationship the adult has to take back control. Obviously, I am leaving out everything but the final act here. After years of raising a child I will not be threatened. I sincerely hope the threat was worth all the years on the street. I called the bluff.

Their is a difference between beating a child and spanking a child. I spank my children to discipline them for their wrong doing. They are spanked on their bare bottom and receive no more than 20 swats. When they have calmed down and stopped crying, we sit and talk about what they did and what they could of done to prevent them from a spanking.

Beating a child with a belt or strap to cause welts and blisters on their body is child abuse. That is only frustration that a Parent is taking out on the child.