Spare the rod . . .

I'm not sure how old you were when this happened but rather than have you cut your own switch and having it used on you, I would have imposed an immediate cease and desist on whatever activity you were doing that resulted in the broken picture frame and put you to work to earn the money to replace it.

Grandma's tears were probably shame enough to know that you'd done something you shouldn't be proud of and making restitution would/should have make you both feel better.

Grandma's tears were probably shame enough to know that you'd done something you shouldn't be proud of and making restitution would/should have make you both feel better.

You don't seem to understand that the point of beating a child isn't to hurt them physically, but to shame them. It is a shaming act.

And it was a quite effective form of discipline; far more effective than other forms my parents attempted.

Kids are not always capable of adult levels of logic and reasoning; they are however perfectly capable of understanding the logic of physical punishment.

I've known several kids in my life whose parents didn't believe in spankings, and they were snotty and disobedient little shits, one and all.

I'm not a strict disciplinarian or anything like that, but I firmly believe that physical punishment transmits information to a child on a level which words do not, and when done correctly, there is no lasting damage, either physical or psychological.

JPB wrote:

No child "deserves" to be spanked, beaten, whipped, or otherwise hit. It's a reflection of the inability of the parent to discipline effectively.

Exactly.

The grandparents should have been able to foresee the consequences of allowing Cyclo to run indoors.

Corporal punishment, when done correctly, is not done in anger or haste, but instead is a deliberate act.

Bullshit. Furthermore, shaming is harmful, too.

Then your parents should have had more tools at their disposal.

Kids need to be taught logic and reasoning. Please explain how beating them accomplishes this.

Bad parenting is bad parenting, whether there is spanking involved or not.

We don't spank, and our kids are the best behaved kids in our circle.

Frankly, the only thing that hitting a kid teaches them is how to physically dominate people.

Study after study shows that it isn't done correctly, and that it does have lasting effects.

By far the most frequent reason for spanking/hitting is that the parent is angry, not because of a stated disciplinary rule. Also, parents misjudge the amount of force and physically scar kids.

No, cyclo. My kids aren't angels. They're kids (mostly grown now) but the behavior expected of them was always age appropriate with a bent towards being respectful.

What's wrong with labor to work off one's debts? You broke a frame by your actions. You needed to replace the frame (and apologize to your Grandma). People are forced to work towards making restitution all the time to work of their debt to society - they don't get whippings. Why? Because it's cruel!

You could have also learned it by being taught that it's dangerous to Grandma's belongings to run in the house and that all running had to occur outside.

Once you flagrantly violated that rule and learned that running in the house is, in fact, dangerous to Grandma's belongings and that you'd made your Grandma cry you could have spent the next 14 Saturdays (or whatever) pulling weeds in Grandma's garden to earn the money to make up for it. Lesson learned, restitution paid, and if you broke another of Grandma's belongings at a later date then Grandma has the option of having you pay restitution a second time or telling your parents to leave you at home with a sitter the next time they visit.

Providing the money to my Grandma is meaningless, the cost of the frame itself was trivial. The point wasn't about financial damage that was done but the penalty for breaking the rules.

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Bullshit. Furthermore, shaming is harmful, too.

In fact, it is not bullshit. This isn't really a credible rebuttal to my opinion.

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Then your parents should have had more tools at their disposal.

Such as?

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Kids need to be taught logic and reasoning. Please explain how beating them accomplishes this.

I am amazed that this is not immediately obvious, and that any adult would need this basic fact of life explained to them: that actions have consequences, and severe transgressions have consequences which rise in severity.

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Bad parenting is bad parenting, whether there is spanking involved or not.

We don't spank, and our kids are the best behaved kids in our circle.

Frankly, the only thing that hitting a kid teaches them is how to physically dominate people.

I disagree with your opinion regarding physical domination. The infrequent spankings I received taught me nothing of the sort whatsoever.

It is not bad parenting to spank your children when they have been bad, not in the slightest.

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Study after study shows that it isn't done correctly, and that it does have lasting effects.

By far the most frequent reason for spanking/hitting is that the parent is angry, not because of a stated disciplinary rule. Also, parents misjudge the amount of force and physically scar kids.

I guess some parents do. Anything is harmful if you do it wrong...

Heap of ****.

a. There's no spanking, just hitting.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Providing the money to my Grandma is meaningless, the cost of the frame itself was trivial. The point wasn't about financial damage that was done but the penalty for breaking the rules.

Which is the opposite point of the one that was important. Arbitrary punishments imposed for arbitrary rules only teach you that those who are bigger than you can beat you if they chose.

Of course the cost of the frame was meaningful. It's what you "owed" your Grandmother for destroying her frame. It doesn't matter if it was inexpensive or a family heirloom. You disrespected her house and her belongings and you should have paid to replace them and apologized for your actions.

It's at least as credible as your claim. More so, I suspect: I've studied how to discipline kids effectively and my wife is a Ph.D. psychologist who has studied the research and has direct experience with child and family therapy.