Alternative History

Bill's providing us with his years of experience yo ho hoing on the high seas.
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Right alone with my ability to plug numbers to find the maximun possible lift of a balloon.

I am indeed a very skillful person in a great many areas of human knowledge unlike f.......n.

Andrew the problem with islands hopping is that you run out of islands.

The technology to cross the Atlantic compare to the Pacific is similar to going to moon compare to going to Mars.

We was able to go to the moon with late 1950s technology for the most part however if we decide to go to Mars now with a crash program it would take every bit of our current technology and a little bit more.

Seocond we are not talking about getting one or two ships across the Pacific but the technology to move and support settlements or even being able to find the settlements once you had planted them.

Im so glad we have Bills wisdom to draw from. Hey Bill, is it dark up there in yer ass?

You are so wrong in making that analogy that I'm not sure what to make of it. The only differerence of any relevance between crossing the Atlantic and the Pacific is the distance covered.

The early Polynesian settlers of Hawaii did no island hopping, as you refer to it. They loaded up their catamarans and trimarans for a voyage of unknown duration and followed the stars and the currents in search of new terrritory. When they spotted the erupting volcanoes of Hawaii, they hove to and settled in for the long haul. Had they missed the archipelago known later as the Sandwich Islands -- and, remember, they didn't know what lay in their path -- they would have fetched up on the Aleutians, coast of Alaska. There's no reason they couldn't have reached it. Those big canoes were eminently seaworthy (I've seen them being hand-made here by old-time ethnic craftsmen) and the sea itself would have provided plentiful sustenance in case they ran out provisions. Point is, they sighted Hawaii and felt no need to go any further. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have just as easily sailed through the Golden Gate into San Francisco Bay. They didn't because, once on Hawaii, there was no need to go any further.

They also used amas and akas to keep their seagoing boats riding in big waves.

Yup. 'Swhy I said there's no reason they couldn't have made San Fran. Those babies are virtually unsinkable. About the only thing that could capsize a boat like that -- and you know this, farmer, I'm sure -- is if you make a mistake on the measurement of the height of the mainmast. Mast too tall can keel you over. You can always get stove in by a whale, I suppose, but You don't hear about that happening much.

Theyd sit around the campfire after a day of trimaraning and say, "Hey, anybody see Umianikanika?" I sailed a narrow and long trimaran when I was in the Philipines and that sucker could fly. And it was truly unsinkable. The only thing really hard was doing the sails and using the "sideass rudder".

Interesting thread. I've often thought that the americas were the great equalizer. Without them, I think we'd all still be living in feudal communities without the conveniences of modern anything.
When I was in Acapulco, I met a man, a historian, who told me in great detail the history of the area and the people. His personal belief was that the chinese had been there before the spanish. He based his belief on many things, one being the physical appearance of the people in the area. Apparently, the people there have more asian looks than the rest of Mexico.
I'm not sure how true this is, but it's interesting none the less.

he should have demanded that DNA tests be done. The MAya are smallish people with a unique look. I dont think they are o ASIAN origin though.

All native Americans were originally from East Asia, unless you know something that scientists don't know.

It was an afternoon conversation covering a number of subjects. I have no idea what he's done or not done regarding this particular tidbit.
When I was in Talum, the guide told me the average height was around 4 ft tall, they were the giants of the mayan civilation because they ate fish. Mayans who lived in the interior were much shorter, around 3 ft. tall. Leprechauns.

Two different levels.

One is the Asian heritage all Mesoamericans, and the overwhelming majority of Mexicans have, proven in the blue blot most newborns, both in Asia and in Mexico, have in the back.

Another is the theory of the Chinese arriving first to America. It is believed to be possible, but not in an expedition, since they left no trace.
The Mesoamerican legend of Quetzalcóatl, a white skinned man turned god who arrived from sacred waters of the East (and thus, possibly, an ancient European, perhaps Viking, shipwreck survivor or lost sailor) around 800 A.D, and whose philosophy highly influenced the Toltecs and the Mayas, has no correlative in the sacred waters of the West.

And then... there is always Acapulco.
During the first colonial years, Acapulco was the main port from where Chinese and other Asian goods arrived since 1571 (they arrived to the port of Navidad, near what today is Puerto Vallarta from 1540 to 1571). The ships that brought them, known as "Naos de China" actually sailed from Manila, in the Phillipines. New Spain (Mexico) exported mostly silver and other minerals, and imported mostly clothing goods. The one-way trip averaged 60 days during the XVI Century.
From that fact, all sort of legends about the realationship between China and Acapulco have come forth. All of them proven as such.

Guides tell big lies to gullible tourists, I see.

I had a conversation with the historian, I didn't say I believed him.
This thread is filled with all sorts of speculation. What does it hurt to throw some more wild thoughts into the mix?
I don't believe the 2012 thing either, just saying... In case you want to beat me over the head for that too.
As for the guide, he may have been full of ****, but the story was interesting. I'm not very tall, but I tower over most Mayan men. I don't think it's a stretch to believe they were short back in the day. Look at the buildings, the doorways are pretty short too.
You seem to be the authority, perhaps you can enlighten us all.

Check to what post I am responding, please.
The gullibility one has to do with the guide, not with the "historian".

I am no authority, but common sense has got to tell you that a whole society of 3 ft. people is not something to believe in.

(Oh, and the "doors" were not household doors in the Western sense)

Im so glad we have Bills wisdom to draw from. Hey Bill, is it dark up there in yer ass?
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Let me know from the view from your balloon.

The early Polynesian settlers of Hawaii did no island hopping, as you refer to it. They loaded up their catamarans and trimarans for a voyage of unknown duration and followed the stars and the currents in search of new terrritory. When they spotted the erupting volcanoes of Hawaii, they hove to and settled in for the long haul. Had they missed the archipelago known later as the Sandwich Islands -- and, remember, they didn't know what lay in their path -- they would have fetched up on the Aleutians, coast of Alaska. There's no reason they couldn't have reached it. Those big canoes were eminently seaworthy (I've seen them being hand-made here by old-time ethnic craftsmen) and the sea itself would have provided plentiful sustenance in case they ran out provisions. Point is, they sighted Hawaii and felt no need to go any further. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have just as easily sailed through the Golden Gate into San Francisco Bay. They didn't because, once on Hawaii, there was no need to go any further.
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Fresh drinking water???? Lack of Vitmin . C?

Once they got there so what if they could not go back and forth and therefore set up settlements in contact with the home country? A ship load of people cut off from their homeland is not a beginning of a colony in any sense at all.

The whole idea is little more then a pipe dream.

The whole idea is more then silly fo the aove reasons alone.

Yup. 'Swhy I said there's no reason they couldn't have made San Fran
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Yes sure the boat was unsinkable and would had drifted in without a live crew who would had long since had die from lack of drinking water and good old C.

Give me a break.

Say, Bill, aren't you embarassed to post some of the silly drivel that you seem to thrive on? Would it be too much to ask you to stick to something you know something about?

Say, Bill, aren't you embarassed to post some of the silly drivel that you seem to thrive on? Would it be too much to ask you to stick to something you know something about?
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Well I am sure that you are an expert on the problems face by those who undertook long sea voyages by sail.

After all, I had only the records of the problems face by Europeans when they begin to under take such challenges, a people who can not compare to the superhuman island people you are referring to.

I am sure that your supermen island people, who could live on fishes, get Vitamin C from seaweed along the way, somehow carry enough fresh water for a many many months journey, and oh yes in ships that can laugh at hurricanes/tropical cyclones.

They surely did not need to spend a few hundred years like the European developing the art of navigation as by just looking into the heavens they could find their latitude and longitude within a few minutes.

You rather remind me of the nonsense that the History Channel likes to put out.

As an amusing side note, a woman is now undertaking rowing across the Pacific by herself. She is however not playing completely fair as she have a satellite phone, a GPS, water desalted or two, weather information by way of a short wave radio and a bottle of Vitamins along with her.

SO far she had reached the Hawaiian Islands from the West Coast and then had broken her trip by flying back to the main land. I am not sure when she is going to once more start rowing toward China.

To sum it up all and all you and farmerman are fools with little understanding of history of any kind.