ABORTION

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what do you think of abortions? Question then is....what do you think of murdering an unborn child?? give me your oppinion on wat you think about this and why do people not see the effect on the life cycle??

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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 2,478 • Replies: 31

[+3] - Finn dAbuzz - 11/04/2009[quote="Merry Andrew"] [quote]what do you think of murdering an unborn child??[/quote] There's a serious flaw in the logic here. How can you murder something that hasn't even been...
[+3] - aidan - 11/04/2009[quote]Far too many proponents of legal abortion never ask themselves this question, and are satisfied with providing their support based on a checklist of what might make them Liberal.[/quote]...

Here we go again. My ole pappy used to observe, "Don't know what's funniest: truckload a dead babies, or unloadin' 'em with a pitchfork."

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

what's red and goes 90 miles an hour?
baby in a blender.

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@angels live,

so what's your opinion on abortion, i'm having trouble figuring it out based on your post

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@angels live,

Do you think women's reproduction should be controlled by the government? Don't you think women should be able to chose what they can and can't do with their own bodies? God seems to think it's OK to murder babies. He did so in Exodus to punish some people who were being stubborn. Should we follow his example?

1 Reply

@angels live,

I think it comes down to this:

What to you believe the relationship is between fetus and mother?

If you believe the unborn child is no more independent, in any way, of the mother than a non-essential organ then you can make a case that the government should not dictate what the mother can and cannot do with the fetus.

You might even think that the government should not tell anyone what they can or cannot do with an essential organ: abort their heart and commit suicide, but abortion never equals suicide and so the issue is irrelevant.

If on the other hand, you believe that a fetus is a human life independent of the mother and that women, for good or bad, are stewards, not the possessors of the unborn, then you need to ask yourself how you want government to regulate the taking of individual lives.

You might think the government should not control one person's taking the life of another, in which case you won't have much trouble with abortion no matter what you think about the nature of a fetus.

My difficulty with the pro-choice position is the degree to which its supporters seem to be able to twist and distort their own morality to legitimize abortion.

Certainly some people honestly believe that a fetus is essentially nothing more than an appendix. I find this a disturbing belief, but if sincere, it leads to logical support of legal abortion.

I'm afraid that I just don't believe that most pro-choice advocates hold this belief.

Oh, a lot of them will say they do, but only a few will actually mean it.

Instead most of them will apply the "Who am I to tell someone else..." principle, and they will take great comfort in this moral cover. It allows them to avoid a starkly honest examination of themselves.

If you accept the premise that you have no right to pass judgment on the decisions and actions of others, then it's easy to avoid taking any sort of moral stand.

All well and good, except the vast majority of people who subscribe to this creed are quite happy to pass judgment on people who engage in behaviors that don't fit within their moral (read political) construct.

We have no right to pass judgment on anyone who kills a fetus, but most certainly do when it comes to someone who thinks the press built up Donovan McNab because he is black, that illegal aliens should not receive the benefits accorded to legal citizens, or that we should bomb Iran rather than allowing them to obtain nukes.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

for me, i could care less about the relationship between the fetus and mother, surely that's between them

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If a woman has an abortion at 8 or 9 months its legal. If she carries it to term and throws it in a trashcan its illegal. Can someone explain the difference without bringing politics into it.

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@rabel22,

let's be realistic, it is possible to get an abortion late term, but it's not the norm

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@angels live,

Quote:

what do you think of murdering an unborn child??

There's a serious flaw in the logic here. How can you murder something that hasn't even been born yet?

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I saw an interesting anti-abortionist bumper sticker the other day.

The message was simple.

"Mommy I would have loved you".

I guess it was aimed at the pro-choice folk?

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@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

for me, i could care less about the relationship between the fetus and mother, surely that's between them

Only if you believe you have no right to take a moral position on the question.

Surely, the relationship between a mother and the two year old she shakes to death is between them and not subject to our intervention.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

well i could try and make an apple pie with oranges but i don't think it would work very well

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

well i could try and make an apple pie with oranges but i don't think it would work very well

Glib, at best.

Let's imagine that a woman believes that her fetus is a life independent of her own and that she has no moral right to kill it; and yet she does.

This is meaningless to you?

Let's imagine that you, personally, believe that abortion is morally wrong, and yet you support a woman's right to choose. In such a case, for a person of intellectual integrity, there must be a moral imperative that trumps the immorality of abortion: What is it?

You seem to be a perfect example of the sort of person who wishes to duck and weave away from the very real and very difficult considerations of abortion.

If there is no reason for you to "care" about how a mother regards her fetus, why is there a reason for you to care about how a person regards gun ownership, or faith in Christianity, or Islam?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If there is no reason for you to "care" about how a mother regards her fetus, why is there a reason for you to care about how a person regards gun ownership, or faith in Christianity, or Islam?

i am pro choice, how people decide to use that right is up to them, not me, i've never had the desire to get married or have children, if i found myself in a situation of getting a woman pregnant, i would leave the choice to her to have it or not and accept the choice, but i like that the choice is there

i am not specifically anti gun, but i don't understand americans obsession with guns (handguns specifically), i wouldn't ban guns, but i don't see a need for conceal and carry, there are people who are paid to carry guns, they are called soldiers and police

as for religion, i don't participate and don't understand why folks do, but do it, just don't bug me with it

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Quote:
what do you think of murdering an unborn child??

There's a serious flaw in the logic here. How can you murder something that hasn't even been born yet?

Now this approaches a reasonable argument.

Obviously you can murder something that isn't born yet, if the law says you can, and there are laws that forbid the murder of the unborn in the context of murdering the mother --- Peterson ring a bell?

What this dodges is the question of the status of the fetus.

Clearly, the fetus is unborn.

There is no universal law that says the extermination of the unborn is unconsequential. There are nurmerous laws in this country that would belie such an assertion.

I return to my original premise: If you truly believe a fetus is nothing more than a mass of organic cells (similar to an organ or tumor) then it is entirely reasonable that you believe, with all your heart, that it is A-OK to destroy said mass of cells.

Far too many proponents of legal abortion never ask themselves this question, and are satisfied with providing their support based on a checklist of what might make them Liberal.

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@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If there is no reason for you to "care" about how a mother regards her fetus, why is there a reason for you to care about how a person regards gun ownership, or faith in Christianity, or Islam?

i am pro choice, how people decide to use that right is up to them, not me, i've never had the desire to get married or have children, if i found myself in a situation of getting a woman pregnant, i would leave the choice to her to have it or not and accept the choice, but i like that the choice is there

You are "pro-choice" because...?

It makes you feel good?

It complies with the fundamental pillars of your integrity?

i am not specifically anti gun, but i don't understand americans obsession with guns (handguns specifically), i wouldn't ban guns, but i don't see a need for conceal and carry, there are people who are paid to carry guns, they are called soldiers and police

Do you favor gun control laws or not?

as for religion, i don't participate and don't understand why folks do, but do it, just don't bug me with it

And so we can expect that you will never post a comments that denigrates Christianity or defends Islam?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If there is no reason for you to "care" about how a mother regards her fetus, why is there a reason for you to care about how a person regards gun ownership, or faith in Christianity, or Islam?

i am pro choice, how people decide to use that right is up to them, not me, i've never had the desire to get married or have children, if i found myself in a situation of getting a woman pregnant, i would leave the choice to her to have it or not and accept the choice, but i like that the choice is there

You are "pro-choice" because...?

It makes you feel good?

It complies with the fundamental pillars of your integrity?

i have no moral objection to abortion

i am not specifically anti gun, but i don't understand americans obsession with guns (handguns specifically), i wouldn't ban guns, but i don't see a need for conceal and carry, there are people who are paid to carry guns, they are called soldiers and police

Do you favor gun control laws or not?

if i was drafting gun control legislation, i'd say no conceal and carry

as for religion, i don't participate and don't understand why folks do, but do it, just don't bug me with it

And so we can expect that you will never post a comments that denigrates Christianity or defends Islam?

nope, i'll continue to denigrate each and every religion as i see fit

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Far too many proponents of legal abortion never ask themselves this question, and are satisfied with providing their support based on a checklist of what might make them Liberal.

For me, although I don't consider myself a proponent of abortion, if I understand why our particular government initially made it legal, it has little to do with a politically liberal bent or tendency and much more to do with a belief in self-determination and free will which is an ideal that is almost sacredly guarded in America. And maybe because I'm American, although I'm not a proponent of the NRA, again, I understand what drives the populace and government in guarding that right as well.
The ideals of liberty and freedom of thought, expression and action are pretty much indelibly branded on one's mind and thought processes from the time one can understand language.

I personally would never have an abortion for the reason you stated - I do not view the fetus or even the embryo or zygote as simply a mass of cells in the same way a tumor or organ is a mass of cells. In my mind there's a critical difference from the moment of conception.
But I also realize that other people have the right to think about it differently, make a different choice and subsequently take responsibility for whatever that choice is-whether it's to abort a child or carry a gun or practice a religion.
And for some reason I don't feel the need to denigrate anyone for their choice, whatever it is.
Actually - I think that's what being liberal really means.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

murdering the mother --- Peterson ring a bell?

You're blowing smoke again, Finn. In the Peterson case, the determination was made by the court that the fact of the pregnancy of the victim aggravated the circumstances of the crime. That fact has absolutely no bearing on the question of the right of a woman to choose whether or not to carry a foetus to term.

But I fully believe you understand that, Finn. You are by no means an unintelligent person. You just prefer to muddy the waters in order to appear to be winning an argument.

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ABORTION

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