11
   

WHY GAY MARRIAGE, VISITING CUBA, AND POT MAY SOON BE LEGAL

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 11:25 am
@spendius,
That is a terrific quote. Bravo!
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 11:44 am
@JTT,
I am more than glad to admit that I was mistaken, J. Happy now?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 11:44 am
@Advocate,
It's the last three words isn't it Ad. They are terrific.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 09:36 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

II'm pretty aware of the poverty (mostly due to the US embargo) .



My laugh of the day!
ABE5177
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 10:04 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

You truly are an ignorant and arrogant piece of work, aren't you, JTT?....
No, no, crap-for-brains, you're not going to explain anything to me. ...
Listen to me, you supercillious, condescending son of a bitch. ..

JTT lol JTT is a fanatic commie freak
last one of its breed hopefully
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:11 am
@fbaezer,
I'm sharing that laugh with you, fbaezer.
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 03:35 am
@Merry Andrew,
Laugh all you want boys, but the embargo has hurt the cuban people. I'm not forgiving Castro a thing, but it stands to reason that if the American government doesn't trade with Cuba and threatens sanction against other countries, multi-national companies and foreign nationals who do, it's probably going to affect the people of Cuba adversely. I know several people who worked in Cuba and are now not allowed into the states. The have letters with official seals warning them they could be jailed if the cross the border.
The UN has ruled against the States every years since 1992. Every country in the world aside from Israel has voted for the embargo to be lifted. Not to mention the past President and many US citizens hold a similar position, agreeing the embargo has hurt the Cuban people.
I also think that if they had massive oil or gas reserves, the embargo would have ended many years ago. It's not as if the American government hasn't done business with equally corrupt governments while the embargo has been in place. Even other commies...
So laugh. I doesn't bother me none.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 06:24 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Laugh all you want boys, but the embargo has hurt the cuban people. I'm not forgiving Castro a thing, but it stands to reason that if the American government doesn't trade with Cuba and threatens sanction against other countries, multi-national companies and foreign nationals who do, it's probably going to affect the people of Cuba adversely.


But we don't impose sanctions on other countries that trade with Cuba - your premise is false: it doesn't conform to the facts. While "you don't forgive Castro a thing" it is also an observable fact that you (and the UN) complain about the U.S. trade embargo, but don't complain about the restrictions to the political and economic freedom of the Cuban people that an authoritarian, regressive government has imposed on the Cuban people for more than a generation. Whatever political and economic misery exists on the unfortunate island is a direct result of that system - and not of the U.S. embargo.

The fact is that Cuba is broke. It doesn't produce enough to take care of its people; it has neither the money to buy what we (and other nations) might sell them, nor much in the way of goods and services we might buy. Neither of these factors is a result of the U.S. trade embargo.

The U.S. embargo is a consequence of previous opposition to this country by the regime in Cuba and its alignment with revolutionary movements that threatened us and our neighbors during a fairly dangerous period in our recent history. I agree that it doesn't have much relevance to the situation today: it is instead a political consequence of the recent past. However, it doesn't take much common sense to understand that the real issue with respect to the political and economic welfare of the Cuban people is their continued oppression by a backward, self-serving, authoritarian and very repressive government. Lifting the U.S. embargo wonn't make much difference to the Cuban people. However, overthrowing the regime that has wasted their lives would quickly do that. Perhaps your concerns are misplaced.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 01:06 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
But we don't impose sanctions on other countries that trade with Cuba - your premise is false:

Yes you do. Throughout the embargo, many Canadian and multi-national companies have been denied business in States because they have had the audacity to ignore the embargo.


Quote:
don't complain about the restrictions to the political and economic freedom of the Cuban people that an authoritarian, regressive government has imposed on the Cuban people for more than a generation. Whatever political and economic misery exists on the unfortunate island is a direct result of that system - and not of the U.S. embargo.


I thought that was obvious with my Castro comment. Sorry I didn't go into mind numbing detail.

I personally had cigars confiscated on my way home from Mexico. I was changing planes. I wasn't staying on American soil, just passing through. It's not an isolated situation I wonder how impartial an American can be. It's not like your news industry is above propaganda.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 01:22 pm
@georgeob1,
You're a bald-faced liar, an unbelievably ignorant human, or, ... Jesus, it's too sickening to even contemplate.

Quote:


BATISTA DICTATORSHIP AND REVOLUTION
In 1952, a young lawyer was running for Congress when General
Fulgencio Batista returned from Florida to stage a coup financed
and supported by the U.S. government. Batista suspended the
Constitution and canceled elections.


Just one of a long list of terrorist actions taken by the USA against world countries. Always countries that they can bully. My, but isn't the USA such a fine country.

That young man, Fidel Castro,
was not allowed to win or lose an election. The Helms-Burton Act,
signed into law by President Clinton in 1996, specifies that
neither Fidel Castro nor Raul Castro will be allowed to run in a
"free election" that would be certified by Washington.

So it's easy to comprehend why U.S. talk of "free elections" sounds hollow
to Cuban ears. Besides, the United States does not have a record
of supporting elections won by somebody not stamped with approval
in Washington; note Guatemala in 1954 and Chile in 1973.


Under Batista, about 85 percent of Cuba's trade was with the
United States. Foreigners, mainly from the United States, owned 75
percent of arable land; 90 percent of services like water,
electricity, phones; and 40 percent of the sugar industry. Super
exploitation and Batista's dictatorship incited the revolution, led
by Fidel Castro, that finally triumphed on January 1, 1959.

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~hbf/resist.htm


Quote:
Gob1 wrote: But we don't impose sanctions on other countries that trade with Cuba - your premise is false: it doesn't conform to the facts.


Quote:
The Title III of this law also states that any non-U.S. company that "knowingly trafficks in property in Cuba confiscated without compensation from a U.S. person" can be subjected to litigation and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may also be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This restriction also applies to maritime shipping, as ships docking at Cuban ports are not allowed to dock at U.S. ports for six months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba



Quote:
By prohibiting foreign subsidiaries of US companies from trading with Cuba, the CDA reimposes controls that were relaxed in the 1970s. Direct flights between the 2 countries are banned, and aircraft carrying emergency medical supplies for Cuba are prohibited from landing in the US. In addition, foreign vessels are prevented from loading and unloading freight in US harbours for 6 months after having stopped in Cuba. The Helms"Burton Act threatens with prosecution in US courts any foreign investor who has interests involving property in Cuba that was confiscated from a US citizen by the Castro government. In direct violation of international law, the embargo explicitly prohibits the sale of food to Cuba by US companies and their foreign subsidiaries.

Medicines and medical supplies are nominally excluded from the embargo, but the almost insuperable bureaucratic restrictions imposed by the CDA on such shipments lead to inordinate delays, cost increases and limited access to some of the most important medical products. These obstacles amount to a de facto embargo onmedical supplies. In 1992 Cuba was in a severe economic depression, largely resulting from a loss of preferential trade with the Soviet bloc.

Cuba turned to US foreign sub-sidiaries, from whom it received $500"600 million per year in imports " 90% ofwhich was food and medicine. The American Public Health Association warned the US government that tightening the embargo would lead to the abrupt cessation of this supply of essential goods and result in widespread famine. Indeed, 5 months after passage of the CDA, food shortages in Cuba set the scene for the worst epidemic of neurologic disease this century. More than 50 000 people suf-fered from optic neuropathy, deafness, loss of sensation and pain in the extremi-ties, and a spinal cord disorder that impaired walking and bladder control.

A war crime of the highest order.


http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:y022AZEEcGQJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en


Quote:
Gob1 wrote: While "you don't forgive Castro a thing" it is also an observable fact that you (and the UN) complain about the U.S. trade embargo, but don't complain about the restrictions to the political and economic freedom of the Cuban people that an authoritarian, regressive government has imposed on the Cuban people for more than a generation.


Gob trots out the propaganda, "we are such a caring nation"; what utter bullshit! The historical record shows that that not the case at all. The USA doesn't care one iota about the people of any country. The concern is and always has been, having a US stooge in place to help the US steal the riches from those same people.

Can you point to the complaints registered by you or the US government "about the restrictions to the political and economic freedom of the [fill in the blank] people" for any of the large number of murderous dictators you've supported in the past? I'd be especially interested in seeing your condemnations, Gob.

Quote:
Gob1 wrote: The U.S. embargo is a consequence of previous opposition to this country by the regime in Cuba and its alignment with revolutionary movements that threatened us and our neighbors during a fairly dangerous period in our recent history. I agree that it doesn't have much relevance to the situation today: it is instead a political consequence of the recent past. However, it doesn't take much common sense


That's horseshit, Gob. The US embargo is a direct response to the Cuban government ousting you thieves. There are similarities there to the founding of the USA. The only difference was that the stoolie the US planted in Cuba was not, in any way, a legitimate government.

Quote:
Gob1 wrote: Perhaps your concerns are misplaced.


Perhaps your concerns are typical of your concerns; providing support for terrorists actions against poor nations simply to steal their resources. Smedeley Butler was right and you know he was right, Gob. That what makes your ongoing attempts to mislead so inhuman.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 01:37 pm
@Merry Andrew,
I wonder why you'd want to laugh about innocent people being denied the food and medicine they need to sustain life, Merry.

You make glib remarks about Castro.

Did the US stooge, Batista, implement one of the best medical systems in the world for "his" people?

Do you still keep in your closets all your old placards denouncing the numerous murderous dictatorships the US has supported over the years?

It's perfectly reasonable to understand Cuba's reaction over the years given the record of the USA in its dealings with Central and South American countries.

The biggest bullies are always the most insecure.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 01:57 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I wonder why you'd want to laugh about innocent people being denied the food and medicine they need to sustain life, Merry.


I wonder why you'd want to follow me around like a lost dog, nipping at my heels, looking for attention. Insecurity like that must be a teriffic burden. I've told you to **** off. I'm not going to put you on 'ignore'. I don't do that. But I do intend to ignore you completely from now on. Rave on.
fbaezer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:01 pm
On misplaced arguments:

The embargo is wrong, stupid, inmoral and useless.
The whole world is against it (except, of course, the US, Israel and Palau).
It hurts the Cuban people (and American business).

This is one thing.

To say that Cuban economic hardships are due mostly to the embargo is to not understand at all the way things work (or, rather, don't work) at Cuba.
In fact, the US embargo was, for many years, a very useful propaganda tool for the Cuban regime. It doesn't work any more even there -an island with a terrible information blockade, set by its own government-. Even in Cuba the phrase "poverty is due mostly to the US embargo" is a joke.

And that is another thing.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:18 pm
@fbaezer,
How Cuba might have worked, how Cuba might have been different is something we'll never know.

No country needs the USA's advice on how to run their country. The USA has got more than enough of their own fuckups to fix.

Again, the Cuban reaction to the take take take injustices perpetrated upon virtually every Central/South American nation by the US is completely understandable.

You don't remove a rattlesnake from your bed and allow two more in.

We don't have to settle on "mostly" to know that it has had a detrimental effect on Cuba. The Americans are always at the front of the cue whining about trade injustices. Let's have an independent review calculate the cost to Cuba of this immoral and illegal blockade.

The US can pay what they owe and we all move on, ... to

Chile, Nicaragua, Angola, the Philippines, Vietnam, ... .
0 Replies
 
Sglass
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:23 pm
JTT where do you get your information. Your brain is a conglomerate of very confused issues with no resolution.

In other words WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU HEARD FROM YOUR HEAD LATELY? Hearing voices?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:30 pm
@Merry Andrew,
I wonder why you'd want to [laugh about] ignore innocent people being denied the food and medicine they need to sustain life, Merry.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:35 pm
@Sglass,
Very noble, Sglass, "stand by your maaaann".

Have you heard the latest? The UN voted to condemn the US blockade of Cuba 187 to 3?

Instead of worrying about poor little Merry, why not show some concern for those suffering real injustice.
Sglass
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:42 pm
@JTT,
So.
Sglass
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:49 pm
@Sglass,
It's obvious you are a communist. Why don't you go wash your Lenins somewhere else comrade.
Merry Andrew
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2009 02:52 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Have you heard the latest? The UN voted to condemn the US blockade of Cuba 187 to 3?


Is that somehow supposed to impress us? I seem to recall that at some point the UN also voted to condemn Israel as being genocidal at a time when Palestinian adolscents were blowing themselves and everyone around them up at an alarming rate. A vote in the General Assembly is fairly meaningless. Only a Security Council resolution is anything to pay heed to. (And, of course, that soon becomes moot also since any Security Council member can veto any of the Council's resolutions.)
 

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