Obama the Clinical Narcissist

Hmmmmm ....

Now that you mention it, I can think of so many politicians & "world leaders" who might very easily fit the NPD profile! Should we (if we can be bothered) compile a long list of them?

Finn D'Abuzz wrote:

Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important.

This reminds me of the saying that you may not be paranoid if the world really is out to get you. Likewise, you actually may be important if people really elect you to be the leader of the free world. So Obama may not be clinically narcissistic for believing that he is.

I'm not familiar with that saying Thomas, but I have heard the one that goes:

"Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean that someone isn't following you."

In that vein:

"Just because you are a narcissist doesn't mean you're not hot ****."

PS: Is it even conceivable that you would have written your initial post if McCain had won? Did you ever start a thread like this when George W. Bush was president? I don't think so.

A bit crabby when you wrote this. Getting enough sleep?

It's certainly conceivable that I would have written a post like this if McCain had won, but not likely - so what?

No I didn't post a thread like this about Bush, in large measure because, whatever he is, Bush is not a narcissist, but again - so what?


You're just continuing to be a sore loser, and must be depressed (clinically, perhaps?) because your party has nothing positive to offer right now. Hence the rant.

The election is over. You lost. Get over it.

What nonsense, and if anyone sounds petulant, it is you.

The 2008 election wasn't a baseball game.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that by virtue of winning the election, "the best man" won.

So the election is over an the 49% or so of Americans who didn't want Obama as president are just supposed to shut up, sit down, and let him govern?

What a crock, and one I'm surprised you would think to offer.

I shouldn't be though because despite your claim to objectivity you have revealed yourself, in this response, to be quite the partisan.

Again, Obama may not be clinically narcissistic (although a bunch of people seem to think anyone who seeks the presidency is), but it is hardly wildly unreasonable to suggest he might be.

Suggesting he is an Islamist Sleeper would be.
Suggesting he wishes to cede US sovereignty to the UN would be.
Suggesting he seeks to destroy US capitalism would be.

Suggesting he is a narcissist is not.

Since we're asking about prior posts, did you ever tell the critics of Bush to get over it and stop being sore losers?

Phoenix32890 wrote:

The difference is, that Obama is using this "cult of personality" of his to the nth degree. Clinton did not do that.

How about George W. Bush, whom you voted for? Twice?

I usually disagree with ebrowh p, but this time he's simply right. This talk about clinical narcissism and the like is nothing but childish name calling. And as for personality cult, I can see that among some of his supporters during the campaign, but not from Obama, and not after the election.

What's next Finn? Yo mama jokes?

Just addressing your highlighted points...

Does Obama have a grandiose sense of self-importance or do you ascribe that to him? Some one with no hope of winning the Presidency running might have a grandiose sense of self-importance; someone who can pull it off doesn't. You could probably say that every candidate for President except for Bob Dole suffered this same defect. I'll get to the Bob Dole example in a minute.

So, apparently, you are ready to grant the legitimacy of an over-inflated sense of self-importance to anyone who actually achieves a high position of power.

Not to suggest a comparison between Obama and Hitler and Mussolini, but the latter actually achieved the highest positions of power in their countries. Does this mean they were not narcissistic?

Look at his life before he achieved the presidency.

How many autobiographies have you written?

Obama doesn't live in a dream world of exceptional success, he lives in a real world of exceptional success. He's become President of the United States. In his 40's. You don't consider that successful? If his two books bombed, you might have a point, but they brought him millions.

His dream world has him achieving successes far beyond winning the presidency and writing two successful books (that became successful once he decided to run). There is reason to argue that he believes he can eliminate nuclear weapons from the face of the earth, that he can save Mother Earth from the excesses of homo sapiens, that he can eliminate concerns about racism from our society, etc etc etc.

David Axelrod reports that when Obama was considering whether or not to enter the race, Michele Obama asked him what he thought it would mean if he were actually elected president. Supposedly (and this is Axelrod pumping up his bosses image) Obama responded that he felt his election would prove to and motivate every kid outside the mainstream that they could do great things.

Sounds real nice but did he really believe this?

He's been president for 10 months now and has there been a precipitous drop in the HS drop-out rate? How about unwed pregnancies, or juvenile crimes?
Have more kids in disadvantaged locales applied to colleges? Do we even expect the black voting rate, manifested during the 2008 election, to repeat itself in this year's elections or next year's?

I think the "special" comment would have applied really well to Bill Clinton, but I haven't seen any of that from Obama. If you have some concrete examples, I'd entertain them.

On the deference comment, could you provide some examples? I think Obama has expected that he will receive no deference, especially from the opposition. Bush expected a honeymoon from Dems and he basically got one. Obama had some hope that Republicans would work with him and that hope was dashed pretty quickly.

So, do you think the White House attack on FOX has been launched without Obama's approval, if not direction?

How about his repeated admonitions to people who he believes are getting in his way?

If Obama really had some hope that Republicans would work with him then this is even further proof of his narcissism. Other than selecting a few Republicans for positions within his administration, he has done nothing to suggest to Republicans that he believes their interests and wishes are worth consideration.

I don't know where the attitude thing comes from. I think Bush was much more of the "my way or the highway" mentality. What attitude do you think the President of the United States should have? I hear lots of people say "how dare he bow to the Saudis" and then turn around and say he's an arrogant SOB.

What president in the last 30 years has employed first person more in his speeches than Obama?

When he "chastised" the UN membership for reflexive anti-Americanism what did he use as proof of our bonafides: Freeing Iraq from Saddam? Spending billions of dollars in AIDs relief in Africa? Providing a response to the SE Asian tsunami that should have shamed the rest of the world?

Nope.

His proof of America's core goodness was the programs he has launched.

I think the President of the United States should have the same attitude as Joe Girardi, manager of the NY Yankees.

Be humble whenever it is appropriate but realize and exhibit an attitude that follows the fact that in the last 100 years of world history we are A-Number 1, top of the heap.

Obama is president of the US, not the world.

If he feels some wishy-washy, apologetic persona best serves the interests of the US, I will probably disagree with him, but I will accept that he has the right focus. However, I don't believe he is so clever on our behalf.

Back to Dole: I read a very interesting article in Time during the Bush/Clinton race that has stuck in my mind. The writer suggested that there are basically three types of personalities that run for President.

The first is the personal achiever (what you might call the narcissist, the person who believes in himself.) Every person who runs has to have some of this. This person is where he is because of personal achievement and charisma. Strengths include intelligence, willingness to look at new solutions, high work ethic. Weaknesses include a "rules don't apply to me" attitude, and a tendency to surround himself with those of a similar mindset. Think Clinton, Obama, Guilliani, most Christian leaders, lots of sports figures, some CEO's.

The second is the Noble Family group (the article had a better name). These people come from families that were raised to power and consider public service as their family obligation and trade. Think Bush Sr., Gore, younger Kennedys. Maybe Bush Jr.

The third group consists of people who have risen to the top of large organizations. These people might end up as Prime Minister in a parlimentary system. Here is where Dole fits in. These people started at the bottom and worked their way up, rung by rung. Strengths include strong institutional support and great relationships with branches of government. Downside is a lack of originality. This group also include Colin Powel, military brass in general, business execs who rose up from the ranks. It seems to me this group is the one that considers the Presidency as just one more job higher in the chain of command.

So, I bring this all up because just about every President in our TV, press bite age is going to come from the first group. If this person is not to your liking, you could easily ascribe the traits of a narcissist to them. Of the recent candidates, I think Obama is one of the least narcissistic of the lot. If you don't like him, I doubt any one could convince you of that.

Whether or not I like him, it will be tough to convince me he isn't a narcissist.
I liked JFK and he, clearly, was a narcissist. I like Clinton, and he was clearly a narcissist.

I'm not sure I can be clearer on this point: Almost everyone who seeks the presidency is narcissistic, and that quality, while basically anti-social, is probably OK, to an extent, with presidents.

However, history is replete with narcissistic leaders who cross the line between neurosis and psychosis.

I'm not saying Obama has (yet), only that he bears watching with a jaundiced rather than adoring eye.

What angers me is not just the silly name-calling.

The pretext that you can psychoanalyze someone who you have never met is especially annoying. There is nothing "scientific" or "clinical" about it. It is a cowardly pretext that there is some intellectual backing for the fact you just hate Obama.

This (combined that you don't care about the opinions of others) is an example of the passive-aggressive behavior that is an indicator of a Borderline-Personality Disorder. It is indicative of unresolved issues in familial relationships (heck, I don't know what I am talking about any more than you do).

Just for the record, Narcissistic Personality Disorder also requires that these items cause problems for the person in their daily lives.

Earned narcissism is not destructive. Anyone who's been elected President of the United States has earned their narcissism, I'd say.

(And I posted similar things when people were accusing Bush of having NPD.)

I agree he's using his cult of followers to ride the wave. He's smart to exploit it, as annoying as that may be. I find the cultish elements to be bizarre, here and there.

On the other hand, why the hell not-- when I see people wearing their Obama jackets, it makes me realize the impact of a black man making it as president. It still has huge historical meaning, and in this way I find it refreshing.

Hmm, I suppose we have different ideas about clinical narcissists [= persons with narcissistic personality disorder according to DSM-IV-TR (and the various related classifications in the ICD-10)] here in Europe, but especially in Germany.

At least to my experience and to what I've heard from a friend who's the leading psychiatric doctor of a ward for persons for such illness.

The man has become an icon, a celebrity. He's better looking and cooler than most men on the planet. I don't know why you're so touchy about this, especially considering that beauty attracts people for superficial reasons. I also think his brain equals his beauty, that he's a serious man out to get the job done--albeit, in the most hardball political way, nonetheless, he's not screwing around.

I think the media is having a love affair with him.

I do agree with you about the cult of hatred being there, as well.

None of us is qualified to apply a clinical finding of any psychiatric disorder. The amateurish application of narcissitic disorder to Obama began with writers like Jerome Corsi. Corsi also claimed that Obama's childhood damaged Obama as an adult.

And so you join the ranks of those that believe Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Lenin, Pol Pot, et al were not "destructively" narcisstic because they were just fine with being tyrants, and, after all, they managed to achieve that high state through their native talents.

Somehow you have determined that:

None of us is qualified to apply a clinical finding of any psychiatric disorder.

I don't really know you, but it is somewhat comforting and somewhat weird that you know us all so intimately.

And so you join the ranks of those that believe Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Lenin, Pol Pot, et al were not "destructively" narcissistic because they were just fine with being tyrants, and, after all, they managed to achieve that high state through their native talents.