Sen. Joe McCarthy's Legacy

Shoesharper- Knew about the K of C, but not about McCarthy. In any case, since I was in high school, when the words were added, I have believed that they were inappropriate in a free society. The information about McCarthy only strengthens my position!

Pledge of Allegiance
The Supreme Court is going to take this matter up soon, but in today's climate I don't really hold out much hope that the offensive words will be removed. But whenever I have to say the Pledge I will simply keep my mouth shut at the appropriate time. Hope the Political Correctness Police will not notice. :wink:

A Short History:

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

The original:

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

When they altered the pledge like that I felt mightily offended. I kept my mouth shut and passed over the new words. I worried somebody would notice, but I simply could not say it that way.

Shoe, without giving my position away, may I ask you to give me your opinion on J Edgar Hoover?

Not just shoe anyone who has an opinion is more than welcome.

When I grew up those words were not included in the pledge of allegiance. However, personally, and I am sure most will disagree with me, the entire controversy is much ado about nothing. I am sure when people recite it they don't give a thought to the words "under God." How many of you, atheists included have muttered the words "oh God" when surprised or something untoward happens? When you have what exactly did you mean?
The thing that is worrisome to me is the religious initiatives being pushed by Bush and the religious right.

Pledge of Allegiance
kev -- What an odd question. Or is it? Well, let's see. I think that in the pantheon of Bad Apple Americans, J. Edgar Hoover ranks right up there with Joe McCarthy.

Why do you ask?

Joe McCarthy was undoubtably a complete moron, if you look at what he did to innocent people how could you deduce otherwise?

When I ask you about J Edgar Hoover (who fed the moron McCarthy his lines) what I'm asking is what do you feel about the biggest criminal in american history having the status of being some kind of super hero when in fact he was in the pocket of the "mob" for his entire life, and was the number one conspirator in the cover up the assassination of JFK?

If this is seen as trying to hijack the thread , please accept my apology.

J. Edgar Hoover
kev -- Yes, for many years Hoover was considered a hero, but only because he had the power to cover up a lot os what he was doing. The truth began to dawn on the American people but by then a lot of damage had been done. I think what finally woke us up was his treatment of Martin Luther King. Then his sexual life began to come out, confirming the suspicions many had held for years. I don't think he rates the term "hero" in anyone's book these days. His complicity in the JFK thing is still to be proven, but if true it would certainly fit the pattern.

J. Edgar Hoover is most recently known for his proclivity to wear women's clothing (in the privacy of his own home, of course).

President Eisenhower signed into law the legislation adding "under God" to the Pledge.

That was in 1954. Republicans today still remind us that they are truly the most "Godly" people in all the land.[/b]

Hoover
And don't they prove it, every day?

Re: J. Edgar Hoover


Shoe, a few years ago there was a 4 hour documentary called "The men who killed Kennedy" on this docu was a police lieutenant from Florida who's name was Everett Kay who explained that on the 9th november 63 he taped a conversation between FBI informant William Augustus Somerset and an extreme right wing, white supremisist type named Joseph Milteer, in this conversation Milteer spelled out EXACTLY how Kennedy would be killed.

1. It would be with high powered rifles from office buildings
2. It would be in a southern state (he gave a reason for why it would be a southern state but unfortunately it's impossible to tell what he says)

3. A patsy had been lined up to be "arrested within one hour of the assassination"

Thats exactly how it happened, and Hoover at best did nothing to prevent it from going ahead.

Within days after the 22nd nov Hoover told LBJ that he had conclusive proof that there was no conspiracy, Oswald was the lone gunman, (which is clearly nonsensical) and then for the remainder of his life he lied to the people of America, and to the world.

I would say that is proof enough of his complicity without the other reams of evidence.

McCarthy
kev -- Sorry, but one man's account of a conversation he taped (legally?) is not enough proof for me. Did you hear the tape? Has the tape been authenticated? And since when is a TV documentary valid proof of anything? Conspiracy theories are a convenient way of explaining just about anything you want to explain. But they don't prove squat.

shoe<

I remember Nov. 22, 1963, very well. Though not officially an "adult," I was a senior in high school.

Many memories of that day almost 40 years ago are lost and will rest with the innocence of the era.

I do, however, recall that a few days after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, President Johnson announced that the killing had been the deed of one lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald.

When Johnson announced a committee to investigate the assassination, I remember wondering quite ponderously why President Johnson would want to appoint a committee to affirm Oswald's guilt. My conclusion was that President Kennedy's assassination, as well as Oswald's, was part of a conspiracy.

Even now, I believe the JFK assassination was the work of conspirators. Now, who did the conspiring has since remained a mystery to me, a still-puzzled senior citizen.

I have long ago concluded that I will not live long enough to learn exactly what happened in Dallas on that day four decades ago. I have heard -- and read -- many postulations of who killed Kennedy. None of them have seemed as credible as the Warren report.

So, I have long since concluded that even though in my heart I know JFK's death was not the work of a lone man, my head tells me the government-sponsored study of the assassination has to be the "truth," at least during my lifetime.

I always thought the ghost of Marilyn killed Kennedy.

williamhenry -- I am also a puzzled senior. The events of that day and the feelings that resulted are burned into my psyche. I don't think this country has ever gone througnh anything as bad -- even 9/11. The Kennedy assassination shattered our innocence, and by the time of 9/11 I think we were a little older and tougher.

My recollection of Pres. Johnson's actions is a little different. As I remember it he asked for the formation of the committee because already there were wild conspiracy stories floating about, and it seemed in the best interst of the country to find out what happened. Whether the Warren Report is the last word still remains to be seen. If there are things that Johnson and Hoover took to their graves, we may never know.

Shoe, the tape is authentic, it was played on that documentary for the whole world to hear and is now in the USA archives. It's also on the internet, I'll see if I can find it

kev -- Over here we have a saying, "I'm from Missouri so you'll have to show me."

Who killed Kennedy? Conspiracy theories run rampant as they always do. Will the truth ever be known? Not likely.