Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 03:06 pm
@Setanta,
I'd thought that it is generally accepted that the Pacific Route was not only used for about half of Lend-Lease aid but was leading from the US west coast via Vladivostok and with the Trans-Siberian railway to Russia.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 03:18 pm
I'll happily bow to superior information in your possession. However, the information with which i am familiar is that American shipments went to Murmansk, and any shipments which did not go to Murmansk, or to Siberia via the Arctic Ocean, were carried in Soviet shipping, and that even that was harrassed by the Japanese. I believe it is correct to say that the bulk of American aid to the Soviet Union arrived either through Murmansk or via Persia.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 03:35 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
About half of the cargoes for the Soviet Union were delivered by the Pacific route. War-time Minister of the Soviet Navy, Admiral Nikolai Kuznetsov, wrote in his memoirs: “Transport vessels loaded at the ports on the west coast of the United States arrived in Vladivostok, Nikolayevsk-on-Amur and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, in the Soviet Far East. As a rule, the time at sea ranged from 18 to 20 days - plus the time it took to deliver the cargoes by rail, first, in the United States and then on Soviet territory. Although the Soviet Union strictly observed neutrality, the Japanese interfered with the passage of ships in the Pacific and sometimes sank our vessels…”
Source

Quote:
The North Pacific route accounted for twice as much Lend-Lease tonnage as any other route. It consisted of two parts. The sea route extended from U.S. West Coast ports, such as Seattle, through Alaskan ports to Vladivostok. Ships on the western part of this route were under Soviet flag and were treated as neutral vessels by Japan, which was anxious not to disturb its non-aggression pact with Russia.

The air bridge extended from Great Falls through Edmonton, Whitehorse, Galena, and Nome to Uel'en, Markovo, Iakutsk, Kiernsk, and Krasnoiarsk to Novosibirsk. Over 8000 aircraft flew this route during the latter part of the war. Aircraft were picked up at Nome by Russian pilots, were marked with Soviet colors, and were left unmolested by the Japanese on their flight to Siberia.
Source

Quote:
Delivery was via the Arctic Convoys, the Persian Corridor, and the Pacific Route. The Pacific Route was used for about half of Lend-Lease aid: by convoy from the US west coast to the Soviet Far East, via Vladivostok and the Trans-Siberian railway.[18] After America’s entry in the war, only Soviet (or Soviet-flagged) ships were used, and there was some interference by Japan with them. The operations of the Pacific Route were organized by Leonid Belakhov, Deputy Commissar and Chief Political Officer of the Soviet Merchant Fleet (MorFlot). The Alaska-Siberia Air Route, known as Alsib,[19] was used for delivery of nearly 8,000 aircraft, air cargo and passengers from 7 October 1942.
Wikipedia
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 04:10 pm
@Setanta,

The British (they were in this war, too.... ) ran naval convoys to Murmansk via the North Atlantic.
Probably bringing a lot of American materiel. We didn't have a lot to spare.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 05:06 pm
@McTag,
Well, Walter may correct me on this, too, but i recall that quite a bit of American merchant shipping went by way of, or attempted to go by way of Murmansk. Those convoys were threatened by the German battleships, and protected by the Royal Navy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 05:24 pm
This page lists American merchantmen which were on the Murmansk run. Those marked with an asterisk were lost at sea, probably to enemy action. The list also includes Honduran and Panamania flagged ships which were probably American merchantmen, but for which that information cannot be confirmed.
0 Replies
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 10:54 am
@Setanta,
I apologize if I sounded like a know-it-all. I am not about to claim to an expert on the subject of US aid to the USSR.
I am sure you are right. It was dangerous for the US to be making massive deliveries through Vladivostok with the mighty Japanise navy so close by.

I first thouth you were desputing the whole concept. My mistake.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:30 am
@VALTUI,
Welcome to A2K. I've enjoyed reading your posts and hope you continue to discuss modern history.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 05:36 am
@panzade,

Ditto that.

Coincidentally there has just been a good documentary on our TV screens about Josef Stalin.
Not such a "man of steel" as the image promoted.

Still, if it hadn't been for him, my German would be a lot better now. Wink
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 05:38 am
@McTag,
There was an excellent book published not long ago on Stalin, based on records available since the fall of the Soviet Union. I'll go find a link.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 05:39 am
@VALTUI,
Well, to the extent that the Soviets picked up supplies and delivered them through Vladivostok, it appears that you were right.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 05:41 am
Here we go: Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:04 am
@Setanta,

Thanks Set, appreciated. Can you recommend it? Should I order it??

Here's a link to the TV programme I mentioned.
However if you have the misfortune to live outside Her Majesty's immediate realm, you probably won't be able to see it (at least from BBC UK) on video. For others, there's six more days left to view it on i-Player.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011wh1g
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:42 pm
@McTag,
I don't know if you would want to buy it . . . i didn't. But yes, i recommend it. One needn't agree with Montefiore's conclusions, but the value of these newly available sources cannot be denied. I don't know, of course, how much interest you have in Stalin and that era of the Soviet Union. Could you not get it through inter-library loan?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 03:53 pm
@Setanta,

Doubtless I could. That would be better I think. I don't see me reading it twice.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 10:04 am
@Setanta,

Okay I've ordered it from our library. I can do it on-line. We're really up-to-date. Smile
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 10:06 am
Cool, Boss . . . you're all wired, huh?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2011 12:59 am
@Setanta,

I've got about five books part-read, maybe more. To be fair, a couple of them I don't like very much, maybe not worth finishing those. But I'm easily distracted. I'll have to divert onto J S when he arrives.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2011 08:54 pm
@McTag,
i might as well get it lined up at my library too. we can hold a round table discussion in a few weeks. Very Happy
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2011 03:38 am
"Joe Stalin . . . dictator or tyrant?" You decide!
 

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