brian m
 
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2009 01:38 pm
What fundamental mistakes did the Germans make by trying to take Stalingrad?
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High Seas
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2009 02:25 pm
@brian m,
Brian - here's a short bibliography with the answer to your question:
Quote:
Axel, Albert. Russia’s Heroes. New York: Carroll and Graf Publisher, Inc., 2001. Battle for Stalingrad: The 1943 Soviet General Staff Study. Ed. Louis C. Rotundo. London: Pergamon-Brassey’s International Defense Publisher’s, Inc., 1989. Bekker, Cajus. Translated by Frank Ziegler. The Luftwaffe War Diaries. New York: Da Capo Press, 1964. British Air Ministry. The Rise and Fall of the German Air Force, 1933-1945. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1983. Brookes, Andrew. Air War Over Russia. Hersham: Ian Allan Publishing, 2003. Chuikov, Vasili. The Battle For Stalingrad. Translated by Harold Silver. With an introduction by Hanson W. Baldwin. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1964. Cooper, Matthew. The German Air Force, 1933-1945: An Anatomy of Failure. New York: Jane’s, 1981. Corum, James S. and Richard R. Muller. The Luftwaffe’s Way of War: German Air Force Doctrine, 1911-1945. Baltimore: The Nautical and Aviation Publishing Company of America, 1998. Craig, William. Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad. New York: Reader’s Digest Press, 1973. Deichmann, Paul. Edited by Dr. Alfred Price. Spearhead for Blitzkrieg: Luftwaffe Operations in Support of the Army, 1939-1945. London, 1996. Erickson, John. The Road to Stalingrad: Stalin’s War with Germany. Vol. 1. London: Harper and Row, Publishers, 1975. Faber, Harold, ed. Luftwaffe: A History. New York: Quadrangle, 1977. Galland, Adolf. The First and The Last: The Rise and Fall of the German Fighter Forces, 1938-1945. Translated by Mervyn Savill. New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1954. Glantz, David M. A History of Soviet Airborne Forces. London: Frank Cass, 1994. Hayward, Joel S. A. Stopped at Stalingrad: The Luftwaffe and Hitler’s Defeat in the East, 1942-1943. Lawrence, Kansas: University Press of Kansas, 1998. 93 Irving, David. The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe: The Life of Luftwaffe Marshal Erhard Milch. Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1973. Jukes, Geoffrey. Stalingrad: The Turning Point. With an introduction by Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart. New York: Ballantine Books Inc., 1972. Kershaw, Ian. Hitler 1936-45: Nemesis. New York: W. W. Norton and Company, 2000. Lee, Asher. The German Air Force. New York: Harper and Brothers Publishers, 1946. Lewis, S. J. “The Battle of Stalingrad.” In Block by Block: The Challenge of Urban Operations. Edited by William G. Robertson and Lawrence A. Yates, 29-58. Fort Leavenworth: U.S. Army Command and General Staff College Press, 2003. Manstein, Erich von. Lost Victories. Novato, Ca.: Presidio Press, 1994. Murray, Williamson. “Strategic Bombing: The British, American, and German experiences.” In Military Innovation in the Interwar Period. Edited by Williamson Murray and Allan R. Millet. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1998. ________. Strategy for Defeat: The Luftwaffe, 1933-1945. Maxwell Air Force Base, AL: Air University Press, 1983. ________. “The World in Conflict.” In The Cambridge Illustrated History of Warfare: The Triumph of the West. Edited by Geoffrey Parker. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000. Nielsen, Andreas. The German Air Force General Staff. New York: Arno Press, 1968. Schneider, Franz and Charles Gullans, trans., Last Letters from Stalingrad. With an introduction by S. L. A. Marshall. Westport: Greenwood Press, [1962]. Schröter, Heinz. Stalingrad. Translated by Constantine Fitzgibbon. New York: E. P. Dutton and Company, Inc., 1958. Speer, Albert. Inside the Third Reich. Translated by Richard and Clara Winston. New York: The Macmillan Company, 1970. ________. Spandau: The Secret Diaries. Translated by Richard and Clara Winston. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1976. Stalingrad: An Eye-witness Account. New York: Hutchinson and Company, [1945]. Trevor-Roper, Hugh, ed. Hitler’s Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations. London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1973. 94 Trevor-Roper, Hugh, ed. Hitler’s War Directives, 1939-1945. London: Sidgwick and Jackson, 1965. Westphal, Siegfried. “Between the Acts.” In The Fatal Decisions: Six Decisive Battles of the Second World War From the Viewpoint of the Vanquished. Edited by William Richardson and Seymour Freidin. Translated by Constantine Fitzgibbon. New York: William Sloane Associates, Inc., 1956, 190-196. Zeitzler, Kurt “Stalingrad.” In The Fatal Decisions: Six Decisive Battles of the Second World War From the Viewpoint of the Vanquished. Edited by William Richardson and Seymour Freidin. Translated by Constantine Fitzgibbon. New York: William Sloane Associates, Inc., 1956, 132-189. Ziemke, Earl and M. E. Bauer. Moscow to Stalingrad: Decision in the East. Washington D.C.: Center of Military History, United States Army, 1987. ________. Stalingrad to Berlin: The German Defeat in the East. Washington, D.C.: Center of Military History, United States Army, 1987. U.S. Government Sponsored Documents Primary U. S. Army. Command and General Staff College. Headquarters Air P/W Interrogation Detachment Military Intelligence Service: Hermann Goering. 1 June 1945. Combined Arms Research Library, Fort Leavenworth, KS. File N-10007-3. ________. Interrogation of Reich Marshall Hermann Goering. 10 May 1945, 1700 to 1900 hours. Combined Arms Research Library, Fort Leavenworth, KS. File N9618. Secondary Corum, James S. “The Development of Strategic Air War Concepts in Interwar Germany, 1919-1939,” taken from Air Command and Staff College. Distance Learning Version 3.0: Military Studies. Montgomery, AL: Air Command and Staff College, 2000. Deichmann, Paul. German Air Force Operations in Support of the Army. USAF Historical Studies, No. 163. Montgomery, AL: USAF Historical Division, Research Studies Institute, Air University, 1962. Emme, Eugene. Hitler’s Blitzbomber. Maxwell Air Force Base, AL: Documentary Research Division, Research Studies Institute, Air University, 1951. 95 House, Jonathan M. Toward Combined Arms Warfare: A Survey of 20th-Century Tactics, Doctrine, and Organization. Fort Leavenworth: U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, 1984. Howell, Edgar. The Soviet Partisan Movement, 1941-1944, Department of the Army Pamphlet 20-244. Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1956. Morzik, Fritz. German Air Force Airlift Operations. USAF Historical Studies, No. 167. Montgomery, AL: USAF Historical Division, Aerospace Studies Institute, Air University, 1961. Plocher, Herman. The German Air Force versus Russia, 1942. USAF Historical Studies, No. 154. Montgomery, AL: USAF Historical Division, Aerospace Studies Institute, Air University, 1966. ________. The German Air Force versus Russia, 1943. USAF Historical Studies, No. 155. Montgomery, AL: USAF Historical Division, Aerospace Studies Institute, Air University, 1967 Spiller, Roger. Sharp Corners: Urban Operations at Century’s End. Fort Leavenworth, KS: Combat Studies Institute, 2001. Trogdon, Gary A. “Logistics in the Desert, December 2003.” U.S. Army Center of Military History, Fort McNair, Washington, DC. “The United States Strategic Bombing Survey: Summary Report (European War),” ed. US Army Command and General Staff College. H100 Transformation in the Shadow of Global Conflict. Fort Leavenworth: U. S. Army Command and General Staff College, 2003. Vaughn, David K. and James H. Donoho. “From Stalingrad to Khe Sanh: Factors in the Successful Use of Tactical Airlift to Support Isolated Land Battle Areas.” Air and Space Power Chronicles. Dissertations and Theses Muller, Richard. “The German Air Force and the campaign against the Soviet Union, 1941-1945.” Ph.D. Diss., The Ohio State University, 1990. Thyssen, Mike. “A Desperate Struggle to Save A Condemned Army--A Critical Review of the Stalingrad Airlift.” Research Paper, Air Command and Staff College, 1997. 96 Periodicals and Newspaper Articles Brown, Frederic J. “America’s Army: Expeditionary and Enduring Foreign and Domestic. Military Review 83, no. 6 (November-December 2003): 69-77. Dudney, Robert S. “The Mobility Edge.” Air Force Magazine 86, no. 8 (August 2003): 2. Gosztony, Peter I. “22 June 1941.” Military Review 51, no. 6 (June 1971): 47-51. Kaplan, Robert D. “Supremacy by Stealth.” The Atlantic Monthly 292, no. 1 (July/August 2003): 66-80. Kagan, Frederick. “The Evacuation of Soviet Industry in the Wake of ‘Barbarossa’: A Key to the Soviet Victory.” The Journal of Slavic Military Studies 8, no. 2 (June 1995): 387-414. Murray, Williamson. “Clausewitz Out, Computer In: Military Culture and Technological Hubris.” The National Interest, 1 June 1997. . Pickert, Wolfgang. “The Stalingrad Airlift: An Eyewitness Commentary.” Aerospace Historian, (December 1971): 183-185. Potter, Edwin J. “Prelude to Barbarossa.” Military Review 58, no. 9 (September 1968): 56-64. Sas, Anthony. “Invasion of Russia.” Military Review 51, no. 6 (June 1971): 38-46. Tirpak, John A. “A Clamor for Airlift.” Air Force Magazine 83, no. 12 (December 2000): 24-30. Wood, David. “Military Acknowledges Massive Supply Problems in Iraq War.” Newhouse News Service, 22 January 2004.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2009 07:26 pm
When you will have digested that, you will probably come to the conclusion that they were afflicted by Hitler's hubris, which couldn't admit defeat.
0 Replies
 
mightypythons
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 06:00 pm
@brian m,
Basically time defeated Germany at stalingrad, once winter came it was to late, they then became surrounded by the Russians, utilising the frozen lake. Another point was that Stalin would not let it go, for two reasons one because the city was named after him, and more importantly it opened up russia's oil fields in the Baltic.
Why Russia defeated Germany in the war was to two fold, the Germans never prepared for a Russian Winter, and Russia made available it's crack Serbian Troops who were kept in reserve for the Japanese, when it was known that Japan was taking the Pacfic these troops also turned the tide if battle.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 06:04 pm
@mightypythons,
You better scram before Setanta gets here
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 06:26 pm
@mightypythons,
Well, it seems that you paid more attention in class--but not that much more. The oil fields of the Soviet Union were nowhere near the Baltic--get a map of the world, look for the Baltic Sea, and then look for the Caspian Sea. Quite a long distance apart, no?

Stalingrad (now Volgograd) was surrounded after mid-November, 1942, because Russian Guards divisions swept away the forces on the flanks of the German Sixth army. However, Stalingrad/Volgograd does not sit on the shores of a lake. It sits on the banks of the Volga river (unsurprisingly).

The troops in which the Soviets were able to bring to the defense of Moscow were not Serbian. Serbia is a country on the opposite end of the Eurasian continent from Siberia, where Soviet troops had been stationed during the desultory war between Japan and the Soviet Union. The Serbs and the Russians have long been friends, but i assure you there were no "crack Serbian Troops" serving in the Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War.

The Soviet troops in Siberia cannot necessarily be described as "crack troops," although certainly they were well and fully equipped, because the Soviet Union and Japan fought a war in the far east in 1938 and 1939. The outcome was indecisive, but the Soviets had managed to hand the Japanese a very punishing defeat in 1939. That war was an undeclared war, and Japan and the Soviet Union signed a neutrality pact in April, 1941, which is why, after assuring themselves that the Japanese w0uld not break the pact and attack them, the Soviets felt safe in transferring the roughly 40 divisions they had committed to the Soviet far east back to Soviet Europe to defend Moscow. It is more than a little naive to suggest that anyone "knew" at any time that Japan was "taking the Pacific." Among other things, the continued existence of the United States Navy made that an open question.

It does appear, though, that you remembered some things from history class. I would suggest to you that when you feel moved to answer a question like this, that you should go online to look up the events to which you refer, to make sure you've got your ducks in a row.
mightypythons
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 10:53 pm
@Setanta,
As Panzado warned me Setanta you are the king of history. I have only just logged onto this site and thought I'ld write something down basically because the initial response in my opinion was over the top. Although I am a modern history buff. I better research my findings a bit better in the future. Got a topic?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 01:05 am
@mightypythons,

A topic?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 02:52 am
I'm not, nor do i claim to be, the "King of history." I did not provide a detailed response to this thread because it was obviously a case of the original post being an attempt to evade a homework assignment, and get the quick, easy way out of having someone online provide the answer. Your response shows a confused memory of an explanation of the type one gets in a history class in school, which is why i have said that you paid some attention--but the gross errors in it of historical narrative and geography are evidence that you either didn't pay that much attention, or, having forgotten key details in the interim, you posted from memory without checking your facts. Given that i get lazy myself, and post from memory without first checking my facts, i wasn't that hard on you.

I have no interest in indulging in some sort of contest, and i suspect that it would not be that hard for you to do some basic research and to provide a better answer than the one you gave here. I hope you will in future.
0 Replies
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:51 pm
@brian m,
Up until Stalingrad, the Germans had met little or no significant resistance. Their "Blitzkrieg" techniques were a smashing success. In the case of Stalingrad, the heavily armed German Armies advcanced with shocking speed. They went forward quickly and met little resistance and were confident of a victory. Most of the German generals also believed that Communism had made Russia weaker. Unfortunately, the overconfident generals allowed their army to outrun its supply lines. This ofcourse was part of Soviet strategy. Now Germany's finest troops were reliant on their Luftwaffe to bring them supplies. The Soviets had chosen to take a stand at Stalingrad. Unfortunately for Germany, the German Airforce was unable to meet its obligation. Germany had no heavy transport planes and most of the meager supplies landed in the middle of nowhere, or into the hands of the Soviets. Rail supply was impossible since all rail lines had been cut by saboteurs. They were starved out. Finally, 91,000 Germans were taken prisoner. The Soviets murdered 86,000 of them by marching them in circles through the snow and cold. Alltogether, Germany lost over 500,000 of its best troops and never recovered from this disaster.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 04:41 am
@VALTUI,

Quote:
Up until Stalingrad, the Germans had met little or no significant resistance.


Quite a claim. I believe it to be wrong. The attack on Moscow, pre-Stalingrad, failed. Hitler's hubris did not allow his army properly to equip for a winter campaign. This was a big factor in the Wehrmacht slowly being overcome.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 04:47 am
@McTag,
There is so much wrong in that post, McT, that i didn't even want to start on it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 04:52 am
@Setanta,
That will be his/her first and last post here ... under that very name, I suppose.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 05:05 am
You know, Walter, there are people who spend their days searching the web for one particular subject, so that they can post their screed. You may well be right that this is one of those.
0 Replies
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 12:37 pm
@McTag,
Yes, ofcourse you are right. The advance on Mosow was brought to a sudden halt, buut not so much by Soviet armies as by the record-setting cold temps in an unexpectedly early onset of winter. When I say they met little resistance, I am refering to military resistence. Theyw ere overconfident and had outrun their supplylines. Rail lines were cut, and the Luftwaffe had no heavy transport capabilities. Victory was supposed to have come swiftly, before winter. I have spoken with Gereman soldiers who sat just 13 kilometers outsideof Moskow and looked through binocolulars at the streetcars moving along in Moscow.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 01:30 pm
@VALTUI,
VALTUI wrote:
Victory was supposed to have come swiftly, before winter. I have spoken with Gereman soldiers who sat just 13 kilometers outsideof Moskow and looked through binocolulars at the streetcars moving along in Moscow.


I've spoken to my father (2. Sanitäts-Kompanie [2nd company field ambulance] 57, 6th Panzer Division), additionally I've some dozens uncensored letters he wrote from there.

His battalion lost nearly all tanks .... and my father nearly was sent to prison at their field hospital on the retreat : because he hadn't saved some dozen blankets but rescued 29 heavily wounded soldiers instead.
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 01:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Ofcourse after sitting in the sub-zero cold for weeks without supplies, the German Wehrmacht was a sitting duck for the well equipped Soviet forces. The retreat was bloody and miserable. Once again, Germanys Airforce was not there and failed in its mission. Hitler defeated himself. He began the advance dubbed, "Barbarosa", way too late in the year: in mid June. The same day Napoleon chose in his desasterous campaigne against Russia. Meanwhile American supplies were arriving through the Persian Gulf. The biggest logistics movement in military history was the supplying of the USSR by the Roosevelt with good American hardware and munitions.
0 Replies
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 01:57 pm
@High Seas,
American hardware; supplies of every description continued to arrive in the USSR for the duration of the war. The Soviets scoffed at the inferior American tanks, but gobbled up and put to good use every bullet the Americans sent them.

German soldiers reported finding Hersheys chocolate & Chesterfield cigarrettes on Soviet soldiers who were also driving Dodge & Studebaker trucks. Most of the hardware arrived over the port of Vladivostok, but plenty arrived over the Persian Gulf.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 02:49 pm
Anyone who thinks the United States supplied the Soviet Union through Vladivostok is not playing with a full deck of cards. Ever heard of Japan, bright boy?
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 03:03 pm
@Setanta,
The supply of the USSR by Roosevelt during the entire war, is one of the best known facts of WWII. You need to do more research and stop relying on your powers of imagination. You have the Internet at your fingertips if you are too lazy to find books on the subject. Educate yourself a little first. Then perhaps then you can make more constructive postings.

Indeed the USA and the British supplied equipment and weapons to the Soviet Union from 1941 to the end of the war. The Soviets loved the US aircraft mainly the P-39 Aircobra. This aircraft had a 37mm cannon that could destroy the top amour of most German tanks. They supplied something like 14,000 aircraft and thousands of tanks. The Soviets were not impressed by US tanks; mainly M-3 and M-4 which were inferior the Soviet T-34, but they used them. The US supplied uniforms, bullets, trucks, aircraft and other war equipment and weapons. The British supplied aircraft mainly Hawker Hurricanes, tanks and again trucks.

I have included some links that will go into more details:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385548/posts
http://books.google.com/books?id=z3hP33KprskC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_...
http://cgi.ebay.com/National-Suicide-Military-Aid-To-Soviet-Union-Sutton-NR_W0QQitemZ260765513505QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101

http://www.feldgrau.com/econo.html

You will need patience and you will have to read this well to get the details of the extent of American aid for the USSR during WWII.


0 Replies
 
 

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