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Child abduction victim found after 18 years in captivity

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 10:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
It doesn't frighten me, and as a survivor of child sexual abuse, i suspect that i know more about it than you do . . . you sick ****.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:52 am
@rosborne979,
There's no way she can ever get the same life back.......but I do hope she can get a damn fine life back...some time.

And the same for her children.

It sounds as though there is a lot of thoughtfulness going into her care right now.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 01:03 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

HUM, no. An abuser does not have the power to ruin a persons life, to steal their life. A victim can choose to stay a victim and allow this to happen, or alternately they can heal and end the abusers power over them. The abuse will forever be part of who these three women are though....they can never be normal. Expecting them to be normal, or worse trying to force them to be normal, is to re-abuse them. It happens all the time though, victims are re-abused by the clueless agents of the collective, by the system and by the quasi public saviour groups.


You ARE sick.
aidan
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 01:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter - why is that sick?
I am asking. I am not advocating one viewpoint or the other - so I don't need anyone telling me I'm sick because I'm asking.
Admittedly - I have never been abused- in any way- so I have no personal experience with any of it.
But my mother was physically and emotionally abused and another person very close to me was sexually abused as a child.
From my observation of these two people in my life - what Hawkeye wrote is true.
Quote:
An abuser does not have the power to ruin a persons life, to steal their life. A victim can choose to stay a victim and allow this to happen, or alternately they can heal and end the abusers power over them.

Both my mother and the other person I know who was sexually abused voice this exact same sentiment. They both said, 'I could have sunk down into my despair and then he would have won, or I could get on with my life- and that's what I decided to do.'

Quote:
The abuse will forever be part of who these three women are though....they can never be normal. Expecting them to be normal, or worse trying to force them to be normal, is to re-abuse them.

I don't know what normal is but asking anyone to deny their experiences and be someone different from who they are capable of being , would seem to be a sort of abuse.

Quote:
It happens all the time though, victims are re-abused by the clueless agents of the collective, by the system and by the quasi public saviour groups.

And that IS what collectives (of any sort) seem to do. Deny or reject anyone who doesn't meet their standards of normalcy- no matter what the reason.

I'm sure you know Walter, given your professional experience, that when people are subjected to any sort of institutionalized programming, they must adapt to that to a certain extent or risk insanity.

Is he saying something different from that?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 01:44 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Walter - why is that sick?


Might well be that I'm biased: the person I know best was abused by her father. Additionally, I've worked with abused women and men (in handicap homes/groups) as well as with abusers (mainly as probation officer).
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 01:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I guess what I read him saying is that once the abuse happens - which is NEVER the abused person's fault- there is only one choice the abused can make which will lead to any sort of future happiness. And that would seem to be the choice to deny the abuser future empowerment - and take charge of your own health and happiness- while recognizing the damage that has been done can never be fully erased.

In the case of this girl- Jaycee- she was molded and manipulated at a very young and impressionable age to meet the needs of this maniac. It's not surprising to me she may have come to love and rely on him. And recognizing that that may be true about her doesn't say anything bad about her. I doesn't say anything other than that she did what she had to do to survive.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 02:05 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
I doesn't say anything other than that she did what she had to do to survive.


I agree here.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 02:34 am
Aidan wrote:
I doesn't say anything other than that she did what she had to do to survive.


How contradictory is that to what some nuts said in another thread:
Quote:
Life without freedom has no value.


It just proves that life has its own ways and philosophic considerations are not in order when survival is at the stake..
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 04:29 am
Speaking as a former abused child, I can tell you that the affect of the abuse is lifelong in my case. I can't speak for anybody else, naturally. But, if it still affects me, after stopping in the 1950s, it can affect others, some perhaps to a worse degree than that. It is easy to say, Make a choice to live your life and get over it. Unfortunately, much of it is so ingrained as to be part of me. At the most inopportune moments some vestige of it hinders my ability to function in a normal healthy way. Anybody who sides with one of the abusers speaks from misguided ignorance, to be charitable.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 06:56 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Speaking as a former abused child, I can tell you that the affect of the abuse is lifelong in my case. I can't speak for anybody else, naturally. But, if it still affects me, after stopping in the 1950s, it can affect others, some perhaps to a worse degree than that. It is easy to say, Make a choice to live your life and get over it. Unfortunately, much of it is so ingrained as to be part of me. At the most inopportune moments some vestige of it hinders my ability to function in a normal healthy way. Anybody who sides with one of the abusers speaks from misguided ignorance, to be charitable.
I can relate to that situation, tho the only error was mine
n I was very aware of that. I was ashamed of what I had not done.
It pained me for too many years, as u described.
I applied some psychological techniques that were effective
in removing the residual emotional pain.

Time heals all wounds, IF the wounds are clean.
If thay r not, then the poison must be washed away,
after which thay will heal.


It might be worth your while to find a good psychologist
and explain your situation, rather than endure it for the rest of your life.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 07:03 am
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Aidan wrote:
I doesn't say anything other than that she did what she had to do to survive.


How contradictory is that to what some nuts said in another thread:
Quote:
Life without freedom has no value.


It just proves that life has its own ways and philosophic considerations are not in order when survival is at the stake..
I agree that the victim shoud not be judged
for any decisions that she made nor for any of her conduct,
or absence thereof. She was well within her rights
to do what she pleased or to do nothing.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 07:11 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
Quote:
I guess what I read him saying is that once the abuse happens - which is NEVER the abused person's fault- there is only one choice the abused can make which will lead to any sort of future happiness. And that would seem to be the choice to deny the abuser future empowerment - and take charge of your own health and happiness- while recognizing the damage that has been done can never be fully erased.
Agreed that it can never be fully erased,
in that the lost years cannot be recovered,
but I bet that psychologists can help her to feel a lot better.




aidan wrote:
Quote:
In the case of this girl- Jaycee- she was molded and manipulated at a very young and impressionable age to meet the needs of this maniac. It's not surprising to me she may have come to love and rely on him. And recognizing that that may be true about her doesn't say anything bad about her. I doesn't say anything other than that she did what she had to do to survive.
In your opinion, is it possible that Jaycee fell in love
with the kidnapper ?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 08:11 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Sure. She really wanted this, but didn't know she wanted it. Right, Hawk?


she did not want to leave, that much we know. You should look into the case of Mary Letourneau up here in Washington, a teacher who abused a boy (and purposefully got herself knocked-up) and was caught. She was sent to prison, the kid was not allowed to contact her for years, but as soon as the time was up (and she was out of prison) he moved in with her. They are legally married now, and have had more kids I think.

If Alissa was allowed, she would move in with this guy right now, no matter what obstacles were put in her way.
He is going to die in prison, so she will not get what she wants, which will be a source of pain for her and her kids.
When I was 11, if someone like Garrido had attempted a kidnapping, I 'd have shot him,
if that were at all defensively possible (i.e., if I coud line up the shot).
His life expectancy woud have been very short,
unless for some reason that were actually IMPOSSIBLE.

Failing that, if it were possible, I 'd have been very interested
in severing a carotid artery or puncturing a kidney or just boxing his ears,
if I got the chance, to both avenge myself and to liberate myself,
but that 's just ME -- my nature.


Having acknowledged that,
we must recognize that different people think differently, uniquely.
Homicide (however justified it was) might have been inconsistent with Jaycee 's wishes.

We have no way of knowing what was in Jaycee 's mind.
She had no duty to follow any particular philosophy
in selecting her conduct. She was not obligated to choose
liberation nor vengeance, if she was so disinclined.

She was perfectly within her rights
to live her life as she saw fit.

It woud have been nice of her to have called her mom, tho
maybe at Christmastime, or for her birthday
,
if indeed, she had free access to a telephone, as was represented in the CNN report.





David
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 11:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
In your opinion, is it possible that Jaycee fell in love
with the kidnapper ?

Sure. And totally understandable (in my opinion) that she might. He was probably her first kiss, her first sexual experience and as inappropriate and distasteful as the thought of such a 'relationship' (that apparently developed despite the initial terror and rape) between them might be to us - it's most all she's ever had the opportunity to know.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 11:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:
Failing that, if it were possible, I 'd have been very interested
in severing a carotid artery or puncturing a kidney or just boxing his ears,
if I got the chance, to both avenge myself and to liberate myself,
but that 's just ME -- my nature.

Yeah- I was thinking that too. I don't think I'd have lived through it as I can't imagine that I'd ever stop screaming long enough to listen to anything he had to say. He'd have had to have strangled me to get me to stop screaming.

I think personality type does indeed play a huge role in how different people respond to abuse- not saying that one is better than any other - as I said, I imagine if I'd been in a similar situation as this girl - I'd have ended up dead.

I also think personality type plays a huge role in how people either do or don't cope with the lack of freedom (or liberty). When I read your comments on that subject on another thread - I thought that'd be a good thread topic. Are there inherent personality characteristics that either do or don't enable people to risk everything to obtain freedom or do or don't enable them to live happily under someone else's control (as in under oppression) whether that's meted out by an individual or a particular government?

Obviously this girl was able to replace the life she'd had with the life this guy wanted her to have. I'm the same as you - I'd have had to fight tooth and nail for my right to have the life I wanted to have.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 11:59 am
@aidan,

Yes; well, except for the time of the initial confrontation (i.e., the moment of kidnapping itself)
it behooves u to choose the most opportune time n place for your battle, in order to successfully prevail.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:06 pm
Aidan wrote:
I'd have had to fight tooth and nail for my right to have the life I wanted to have.

And you would do that at the age of eleven?

Boasting at a mature age is so easy..

Obviously you have never been confronted to a real threat to you life...

edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:08 pm
Abuse often begins in the cradle. Try fighting from there.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:13 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Aidan wrote:
I'd have had to fight tooth and nail for my right to have the life I wanted to have.

And you would do that at the age of eleven?

Boasting at a mature age is so easy..

Obviously you have never been confronted to a real threat to you life...



I don 't think that ' s obvious.
Y do u think that 's obvious ?

In their youth, people can be prepared to defend themselves.





David
Francis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:19 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Yes, I do think it's obvious.

Not only that but Aidan has an amazing propensity to share so-called experiences in her life adapted to any kind of topic it happens to be in these threads.

Yes, young people can be prepared to defend themselves. But in reality, how many are?

Education can also prepare people to be a bit less perverted..
 

 
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